Game 2 Preview: A chance to right some wrongs
Posted by Arsenalist on April 22, 2008
A tough one to swallow that Game 1, but if anything came out of it, it was that we did outscore the Magic 77-71 in the final three quarters and did something right. Needless to stay a better first quarter and a strong-minded defensive effort is required tonight in Orlando. The Game 1 fallout has included claims that Sam Mitchell is on the hot seat if the Raptors don’t show something of substance before the post-season is over. I’m sure it doesn’t help when your All-Star starts openly questioning a failed unorthodox strategy of creating mismatches that backfired in the very first quarter.
Bryan Colangelo is clearly upset at the way the team performed in Game 1 but directed his wrath towards the officiating crew who ignored potential Howard goaltends and let Keyon Dooling suffocate Calderon into frustration. This is an instance where the Magic need to be given credit for playing aggressive and seeing what they can get away with, if the Raptors would’ve played Dooling-type defense on their guards, the officials would’ve allowed it. To the aggressor goes the advantage and that’s the lesson learned from Game 1.
The Raptors regroup for Game 2 with an emphasis on defense, more specifically defending the pick ‘n roll without compromising coverage on outside shooters. Andrea Bargnani had some trouble defending the high screen ‘n roll and both Jose Calderon and TJ Ford allowed excessive guard penetration which wiped out any chance of a defensive stand. Although Bargnani’s starting Game 2 (insane since he’s never ever played the 3 before), I’m hoping for Jamario Moon to see more playing time against Hedo Turkoglo, Bargnani’s size does no good on defense because Turkoglu can easily blow past him. However, the shorter but quicker Moon can use his athletic ability and reach to bother Turkoglu as long as he’s disciplined and aware of the numerous fakes the Turk uses.
Chris Bosh must exploit Rashard Lewis better than he did in Game 1, Lewis was fronting Bosh and pushing him out of his comfort zone and forcing him into tough situations which would always yield a low percentage shot. Chris Bosh by his own admission acknowledged this and looks to be ready for Lewis in Game 2. Lewis is an extremely tough matchup for Bosh because he matches his quickness and length, if Bosh had a more refined post-up game, he could’ve exploited Lewis far more easily but as it is, its going to be up to sheer positioning and effort that Bosh might outplay Lewis.
The other question even the Magic media is wondering is whether the shooting in Game 1 was just one of those lucky nights and something that can’t be produced with any sort of consistency. Probably not, 9/11 3FG is something sick and hard to repeat but the Raptors can’t look at it that way. They need to be aware that in the final three quarters the Magic were getting open looks and simply missing them. At the end of the day the Magic ended up shooting a not-so-insane 45% from three which can be easily reproduced. We need to keep them between 20-30% for us to have a shot.
Dealing with Dwight Howard can be tricky but excessive double teaming and cheating off your man to fake a double is something that will never work, the Magic are too athletic and too good of a shooting team to be played like that. Rasho can slow down Dwight Howard as long as he avoids giving up deep positioning, and even if he does, a double should only come if it can result in Howard being put under pressure, not just for the sake of doubling. The best strategy for the Raptors is to let Howard beat you and get his points rather than let everybody on the Magic heat up. Offensively, we need to go at Howard a bit more, create Bosh on Howard matchups through screen ‘n rolls and try to pick up fouls on him - something he’s very susceptible to.
If we play to our strengths and show some passion and intensity on defense, there’s every chance that we come back to Toronto with home-court advantage.
Let’s go you Raptors!!!!
April 22, 2008 at 2:14 am
I think it’s pretty much acknowledged that the Raptors must initially take away the Magic’s 3-point shooting in game 2. If that opens up the interior at least it will only be a 2-pointer albeit a high percentage shot. Raptors must generate a higher scoring offense to match the Magic’s interior scoring.
The momentum of the game will dictate who wins game 2 if the Raptors can stay close to the Magic.
April 22, 2008 at 3:25 am
Individual mis-matches create open shots.
Making shots creates momentum.
Unfortunately, the Raptors will not be able to stem the tide in their individual match-ups vs Turkoglu & Lewis and the Magic will win Tuesday’s game.
The games Toronto will have the best chances to win will be their home ones, plus Game 5 (and, if necessry, Game 7), in Orlando.
April 22, 2008 at 7:24 am
Rebounding.
April 22, 2008 at 8:17 am
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re: Rebounding
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During Sunday’s Lakers v Nuggets Game 1, Jeff Van Gundy (NBA Analyst) made an insightful comment - one of many he makes, per game, on a regular basis - about the value of a coach’s ‘words’ alone toward the performance of his team, vs what their habits are, on a daily basis …
“You cannot influence a team with your words, at halftime or in the pre-game talk … they are going to do what they do.” - JVG
… which is exactly what I thought about while reading FLUX’s comment above.
Orlando (+0.31) finished 16th this season in ‘Rebounding Differential’; while,
Toronto (-1.54) finished 22nd.
In Sunday’s Game 1 … http://www.nba.com/games/20080420/TORORL/boxscore.html
the Rebounding numbers were as follows:
Toronto 35 (Individual) + 11 (Team) = 46
Orlando 42 (Individual) + 6 (Team) = 48
which means that the Raptors and the Magic both performed pretty much as expected when these two teams are matched-up against one another.
For Toronto to effect some type of fundamental change to the ‘Rebounding Differential’ numbers in Game 2 … they will need to address their Individual Player match-ups vs the key ‘board men’ for Orlando, who are D12 (22), Turkoglu (6), Bogans (5), Lewis (4), Evans (2) & Nelson (2) … for example, by going to a player rotation that I suggested on this site several weeks ago …
STARTERS
1/Calderon v Nelson
2/Moon v Bogans
3/Graham v Lewis
4/Humphries v Howard/Turk
5/Bosh v Turkoglu/D12
KEY SUBS
G/Parker v Dooling/Evans
F/Kapono/Delfino v Evans/Dooling
C/Nesterovic v Foyle
which is what a ‘Top Notch’ GM & Head Coach combination, like RC Buford & Gregg Popovich would have done with the Raptors’ player personnel … several months ago … when TJ Ford was pulling his ’sulking’ I’ll-only-play-as-a-Starter-for-this-team B.S.
Unless you can ‘think the Individual Player match-up game’ like an NBA head coach, it’s very difficult to truly understand what THE DIFFERENCE is between ‘the Winners’ & ‘the Losers’ in this League, in the games that have a lot of meaning … i.e. versus Plus .500 Teams.
Enjoy Game 2 this evening!
http://khandorssportsblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/22/a-winning-line-up-for-the-raptors-vs-the-magic/
April 22, 2008 at 8:28 am
I just found it odd Arse didn’t mention the word the entire post. And I’m more worried about him getting rebounds then points. This is why Moon needs to be in there more then any other reason.
When you got one guy that you know can get you 22 it allows the other players to worry more about getting in right positions to beat the other team as opposed to hanging back for a split second to make sure the actually got the rebound.
Plus, countless games come down to securing the rebounds and not giving up second chances.. ask Vlade Divac.
Does anyone know where you can get the box scores quarter by quarter..cuz those rebounding totals seem a little skewed.
April 22, 2008 at 9:24 am
Aside from D12 getting a couple offensive rebounds in the fourth when we were worn down, rebounding wasn’t a problem. If we see Moon in the game more you’ll probably end up seeing the rebounding numbers even.
The major thing that needs fixing is guard penetration, that is the root of all the problems we were having.
April 22, 2008 at 9:29 am
Hump and Graham to start? That’s insane. Graham sucks and Humps not much better.
April 22, 2008 at 9:36 am
[...] Arsenalist is being very positive towards tonight’s game and I commend him. He may go postal after the series but that is another [...]
April 22, 2008 at 9:59 am
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re: Hump and Graham to start? That’s insane. Graham sucks and Humps not much better.
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Insane?
You mean like … when the San Antonio Spurs won the NBA championship with NBA stalwarts (at the time) like, say, Malik Rose and ‘the B-league globe-trotting Karate Kid’.
The close-mindedness of certain basketball ‘fans’ who think they understand how the NBA works … but are truly out-to-lunch … is often times mind-boggling.
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re: Aside from D12 getting a couple offensive rebounds in the fourth when we were worn down, rebounding wasn’t a problem.
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To read some of these different ‘observations’ by Raptors ‘fans’ is truly amazing.
Aside from getting a couple of OFF-rebs in the 4th Q?
This is what I wrote on RaptorsTalk.com.
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re: “Step By Step, Possession By Possession,”
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The average basketball ‘fan’ has no idea what determines Winners from Losers in an NBA game.
Read that quote again and again … and then actually listen to what the best NBA coaches have to say when they give an explanation for THE reason their team won or lost a specific game.
In the NBA, teams Win and/or Lose games because of changes in momentum, and specific individual player match-ups AND the scoring situations they create which a team takes advantage of by making open shots.
Coming from a time-out situation, at the 10:15 mark of the 4th Quarter in yesterday’s game between Orlando & Toronto, the Magic ran an isolation Post-up play for Hedo Turkoglu on the Right Block vs Anthony Parker, when the Raptors had closed Orlando’s lead to just 5 pts.
When the Raptors faked a cover-down and, instead, stayed home on Orlando’s shooters … Hedo faked baseline and turned toward his Right shoulder - into the middle of the lane - for a Turn-around, fall-away Jump Shot that struck nothing but net … and stemmed the tide of momentum the Raptors had built up by cutting into Orlando’s lead, decisively, with Chris Bosh sitting on Toronto’s bench with 4 fouls.
This most critical possession of the game was then followed by the following sequence of 6 possessions (combined) for the two teams:
* Tor … Rasho Nesterovic missed a driving layup shot … Tor 83, ORL 90
* ORL … D12 made a dunk, coming off a high middle pick & roll … Tor 83, ORL 92
* Tor … Jose Calderon missed a 3pt Shot, at the top of the key … Tor 83, ORL 92
* ORL … Hedo Turkoglu missed a driving layup, which D12 rebounded & put back … Tor 83, ORL 94
* Tor … Jason Kapono missed a 3pt Shot, off the dribble … Tor 83, ORL 94
* ORL … Tor was called for a Defensive 3 Second Violation … Lewis missed the FT … but, after inbounding the ball, D12 rebounded Bogans missed 3pt Shot and finished the sequence with a 2nd put back (this time a dunk)
after which this game WAS DONE … at the 8:08 mark of the 4th Quarter.
In the NBA, teams Win and/or Lose games because of changes in momentum, and specific individual player match-ups AND the scoring situations they create which a team takes advantage of by making open shots … FULL STOP.
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You need to read it … to fully comprehend just how important those ‘couple of offensive rebounds in the 4th’ really were and what Lost Game 1 for the Raptors.
April 22, 2008 at 10:25 am
lol khandor.. I thought I explained the importance of a “couple of offensive rebounds” (that lead to second chance points) when I mentioned Divac.. but then again he may not know what I meant.
To say rebounding is “not important” - a skill that comes down to more or less desire and positioning(boxing out your man) seems wierd.
Guard penetration is a harder to control..especially at this stage of the season. You are not gonna teach somone to be quicker or play D better ..again… at this stage of the season. Demanding desire and passion (although only words) may be easier to achieve at this point.
Then again this is just my opinion and what do i know? I don’t get paid Sam Mitchell money.
also khandor we need to remember some of the posters are kids or teenagers .. their insight and knowledge may be somewhat limited by their experience and knowledge of history of the game.
April 22, 2008 at 10:46 am
Khandor, fuck off. Stop writing fans in quotes like we’re a bunch of bandwagon jumpers. The Spurs were looking to tweak their alredy championship caliber lineup which already had Tim Duncan on there, not the same here - we’re the Raptors and you want to start butterfingers Hump and “I can’t make a jumper to save my life” Graham?? Jesus.
You really are wearing my patience thin and making this space very annoying. And WTF does “average basketball fan” mean, are you implying you’re something more than that because all you come out looking as is an egoist with very little insight to actual basketball.
Yes - rebounding was not the reason we lost, D12 got some offensive putbacks in the fourth but guess what, Orlando’s a very good rebounding team where as the Raptors are not - thats not going to change in this series. It doesn’t even come close to guard penetration and leaving shooters open as a reason for the loss.
You are fucking annoying man.
April 22, 2008 at 10:56 am
Red.. look at my last comment on the game 1 recap..I’m trying to reach the man.. Patience my friend .. patience.
He’s just as passionate as you are…and happens to disagree with your points just like you disagree with his and has a vast knowledge of the history of the game that he uses to reinforce his points. He’s an a number crunching analyst at heart and you cant hold it against his .. trust me I do it too.
I have to say Humps in the only guy that plays like a man possessed. I think Sam is just looking for someone to spark the team like Reggie did with Philly and that’s what he was hoping with Bargs. Trust me Andrea look like a mouth breathing pacifist.. but there is a fire brewing in there.
Bosh acts like he has passion but it comes at wrong times and usually to celebrate his own personal success. His flexing with 20 down is the equivalent of DeShawn waving his hand when they were down by 16 last night and it makes me sick. If he does that again I am shopping for a new TV ..last time I got lucky it was Burger King wrappers were the only thing withing my reach.
April 22, 2008 at 10:59 am
RR,
Resorting to curse words … is not a good thing.
You are entilted to your own opinion.
Now, I have shared mine about this subject with you and others who frequent this blog.
As I said before …
Orlando (+0.31) finished 16th in Rebounding Differential this season.
Toronto (-1.54) finished 22nd.
I will leave it at that.
April 22, 2008 at 11:04 am
khandor agreed.. but should we not take into account that others may not be as intelligent or insightful as you..
“regardless who you are” & “and whomever you are”
its like saying you would kick a mentally challenged person cuz they kicked you…or old person for that matter.. there is a reason the say women children and seniors first.. we are NOT all equal..as much as you would like us to be (apparently)
You expect too much from ppl and although you may think “if i can do it anyone can.. or “if ppl only foucused and applied themselves” they could do anything.. its simply not true… you overestimate ppl..
April 22, 2008 at 11:08 am
Oh, and, RR …
before you go critiquing too much what you think I think the difference is between ‘the Big Fundamental’ and CB4 … and the Spurs and the Raptors, as well … you might want to ‘digest’ some of what I’ve written elsewhere
http://khandorssportsblog.wordpress.com/2008/04/21/de-constructing-the-mystery-that-is-chris-bosh/
regarding just how good I know Chris Bosh is … and how he might compare to some of the greatest players in the history of the NBA.
Straight shooting … from twenty paces.
April 22, 2008 at 11:09 am
what the heck happened to your comment about UFCing anyone that comes at you?
April 22, 2008 at 11:12 am
FLUX,
I agree with what you just wrote … so what does that about whther or not the observation you made there actually applies to me?
Kicking the elderly or the mentally challenged is not what I do. :-)
PS. Do you think that RR is a kid, a teenager, an elderly person, or someone with a disability of some sort? Hmmmmmm … methinks not.
April 22, 2008 at 11:15 am
Edit - C’mon man, please don’t make me do this - Arsenalist
Nice, use a convenient statistic to prove your point. I could say that the Magic are #13 while the Raptors are #28 in rebounding.
http://www.nba.com/statistics/sortable_team_statistics/sortable2.html?cnf=1&prd=1
Not that I need stats to see that the Magic are much more suitable to rebounding than the Raptors but seeing how we were -10 (L), -6 (W) and -6 (L) in the season series, I’d say -7 sounds just about right where we should be.
You can’t expect a team that hasn’t figured out rebounding all year to suddenly start rebounding and keep a beast like Howard off the boards. You live with the weakness and try your best but you focus on doing what you can - i.e.: stop giving up dribble penetration.
Arse, nice blog but the comment section is getting very annoying. Will see you after the game.
April 22, 2008 at 11:29 am
Arse I just wrote a huge comment.. It never appeared.?????
April 22, 2008 at 11:37 am
No idea dude, I checked the spam queue and its not there either. Must’ve been lost in cyberspace. If it shows up, I’ll put it up.
Khandor, I can see why Red is getting a little aggravated (not excusing his language at you). You do make some good points but the way you write your comments can be considered annoying by some. Putting fans in quotations is just one example of condescension and it doesn’t help when you refer to others as ‘average basketball fans’. It’s not what you say, its the way you say it.
Just my two cents.
April 22, 2008 at 11:37 am
i honestly don’t see how the raptors can expect to win tonight. they haven’t been able to make necessary adjustments, and re-adjustments in the last two years, no sense in thinking it will go down tonight.
starting bargnani at 3…whatever the new plays were…bosh frustrated, point guards being outplayed by orlandos points…smitch…leo/chuck…fuck…
April 22, 2008 at 11:44 am
khandor I guess it means that people are entitled to their opinion that is usually based on previous experiences.. and the fact that you diagree with something doesn’t mean its wrong and much as you are convinced it is. You never ever to my knowledge even considered that you may be wrong even when you are presented with proof that in fact you MAY be.. you are not as open minded as you think you may be..and your conviction to stick to your guns is as much of a weakness as it is strength
this all is again just my opinion..
i wrote other stuff as well it just disappeared into cyberspace
did you read my last comment on the last game post?
April 22, 2008 at 11:51 am
arse read my last comment from game one.. that’s all I’m saying too..
I also think khandor need to realize some ppl are “casual fans” (perhaps a better term for average?).. they love the Raps and know all their players but couldn’t name another player in the L unless it was a superstar.. they also don’t care about the intricacies of the matchups cuz they are not as big of a student of the game as you are khandor..so for you to put them on blast seems unreasonable .. and you may think shoving endless amounts of you knowledge and data down their throats is helping them educate themselves but really you are just pushing them away cuz they don’t even know the basics… not the mention how you do it.. again see my comment
April 22, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Re: Rebounding ……
Easy defensive rebounds are not really ‘rebounds’ .. they are more like ‘collecting’ as the opposing team quickly retreats. I think such ‘rebounds’ are misleading and should not be considered significant in stats.
Blocking out is significant, but not recognized by anybody except the coaching staff and acute observers of the game who don’t always watch the ball going into the basket and then shouting in glee ..!!
Contested rebounds are significant, particularly offensive rebounds. Forget about the uncontested rebounds .. and also the long rebounds coming off 3-point shots which cannot be reflexed.
Agree .. disagree ..??
April 22, 2008 at 12:19 pm
FLUX,
Remember when I asked you about the Dialectical Process?
If I say something is WRONG then all that does is give someone else the opportunity to say in return what it is they think is actually RIGHT about what it is I just claimed is WRONG.
Once that’s done … as long as there are no insults thrown anybody’s way … then it’s up to either of the 3 parties involved … i.e. (i) the original poster, (ii) me, or (iii) any other observer to form (or reform) their own opinion about the matter at-hand, in order to move the discussion along further.
That’s it.
There is no insulting from me.
If you don’t think you fall into the ‘average’ fan category then you don’t fall into the ‘average’ fan category.
The problem comes about when/if you think that you DO fall into the ‘average’ fan category AND that I have made a comment that YOU THINK disparages not just the ‘average’ fan BUT YOU because you happen to share that same opinion.
Well you know what … there’s really nothing much that I can do about that is there?
If you hold that viewpoint about something which I think is held by the ‘average’ fan who doesn’t really understand very much about how the NBA game works then … if this is in fact true … what you should be trying to do is ask questions of others who just might understand more about the game than you do right now, rather than call that person condescending when s/he tells you that s/he thinks the way you’re thinking about the game, right now, happens to be WRONG.
What I write is what I think or what I know about this environment. That’s it.
Straight shooting … from twenty paces. (in a figurative sense)
April 22, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Raps Fan Says: “i honestly don’t see how the raptors can expect to win tonight.”
…………………..
Would you be a happy raps fan if the players switched uniforms in today’s game? If you would, why wouldn’t you also be entertained with the Magic’s good bball play??
April 22, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Hey FAQ! What’s up man!?
Yeah .. I was mostly thinking of offensive.. if you read the comments you’ll see khandor and I led the discussion led that way..
its the second chance points that it effects.. it uses up the clock as well.. a demoralizes you more then anything.
I don’t think rebounds should be dismissed… but yeah the defensive ones are just part of the job as you say.. on the offensive end tho its new life.
That said.. in Dwights case he may not get a lot of offensive ones but the defensive ones he gets discourages us even further from getting them.. we lose the desire and lose out on opportunities..
did all that make any sense?
April 22, 2008 at 12:32 pm
Arsenalist,
I know full well that my ’style’ isn’t necessarily everyone else’s ‘cup of tea’.
But, as FLUX has correctly pointed out, elsewhere, it is also the case that there are those people in the world who do not have the need to be ‘liked’ by everyone else … depending on the enviroment.
C’est moi.
If you’d like me to not comment on your blog, so as not to cause trouble for others, just say the word.
I do not curse at others.
Nor do I throw insults their way … except, perhaps, in some situations where they might have first insulted me … in which case, I will still try to treat them with a certain amount of respect but do also convey to them that I do not tolerate such behaviour directed towards me with total impunity.
It’s your blog … and I do believe in civility.
April 22, 2008 at 12:35 pm
khandor .. ok.. but..
*different is not wrong…
*and you and i both know that average ppl are too proud or shy to ask question in order to not be perceived as dumb…
if anything you, knowing more, should take the opportunity to explain what they are missing.. and yes you do that.. its your approach and method that sux.. don’t you think that if more then a few perceive you as being condescending that there may be some truth to that…
*from 2O paces.. as funny as I thought that was… it shows your approach .. you see every discussion as a battle .. not an opportunity to teach, if you will, or convince the other of your point..
April 22, 2008 at 12:44 pm
FLUXLAND Says:
That said.. in Dwights case he may not get a lot of offensive ones but the defensive ones he gets discourages us even further from getting them.. we lose the desire and lose out on opportunities..
…………
Yes that is significant for the Raptor’s .. because when I see an uncontested defensive rebound and the Raptors nowhere to be seen on the boards, it gets discouraging to watch. Raptors do not have the rebounding talent to contest for offensive rebounds, and I think they all just give up and run back on defense. It’s understandable …
You have to have a nose for offensive rebounds … and guys like Hump and even Moon seem to have that instinct. Blocking out requires a special talent too .. using footwork and dynamic positioning. It’s a sign of higher specialized bball IQ.
April 22, 2008 at 12:50 pm
khandor … I don’t mean to dump on you, but you are .. pedantic .. and your hectoring style is somewhat annoying. Also depending on past statistics and projecting them into future results is faulty and a crutch for your flawed logic.
Take a more holistic view of bball and the Raptors, and try to think ‘outside the box’. Be less predictable .. and less pedantic.
Good luck fella ……
April 22, 2008 at 12:52 pm
Hearing that Colangelo interview I’m thinking TJ Ford’s a gonner in the summer.
April 22, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Exactly! Red Rebounder and myself said that why Moon should be in there more.. his leaping ability may compensate for a weaker nose…and Humps just plays as if for food. In the words of the Chuck “AAhhh.. You Gotta Love It!!!”
Perhaps a case of a doomed if you do and doomed if you don’t..and like you say we need dudes that have the IQ to recognize when to go for them and when not to.
April 22, 2008 at 1:17 pm
FLUX,
Simple case in point.
There are at least two different but related scenarios to consider when analyzing the “Straight shooting … from twenty paces.” line I’ve thrown into the mix recently, right?
i) Dueling at twenty paces … is definitely one of them.
But, so too is this one, right here …
ii) With a target set at 20 paces away from US - note not me - WE can each take our turn trying as best WE can to hit the bulls-eye … which, in a shooting gallery with multiple streams of weaponery, can be a very challenging task for all concerned (including for the gallery’s owner).
Correct or incorrect?
I think YOU know me well enough, by now, to be able to say with a fair degree of certainty … that I have ‘a way’ of seeing things that involves more than just ‘ONE approach’ … which might be in sharp contrast to how others might perceive me to be (which would be incorrect, on their part).
Life is filled with ambiguity … and, at least, some of the fun in it involves figuring out for yourself what ‘lies behind Door #3′ - either ‘a goat’ or ‘a Chevrolet Impala’ (double-meaning intended) - and what SHOULD be believed (or not) from what each of us currently holds to be the equivalent of ‘Gospel Truth’ when, in fact, it is of no more value than ‘the Wizard Being Behind the Curtain in the Land of Dorothy & Toto’.
Think about it for a second …
When ‘little Dot’ was in the frame in Black & White … was that really Kansas (Rock Chalk Jayhawk!)? or, was that only her perception of what she wanted to be believe life was like back on the farm? Truth or Not.
Vs
When ‘little Judy’ was visible to all in Vivid Technocolor … and the world seemed so familiar to us all … frought with Witches, Strawmen, Tinmen & Cowardly Lions, galore … each trying to just find their own way home … missing what each thought (mistakenly?) they could not succeed without, but in fact were discovered to be wrong.
FLUX, my man … enjoy the ride!
We only get to go around 1 time … and the trick is to be able to tell the difference between the good guys and the truly wicked.
[Hint: Things are almost always ... not as they seem they are upon first glance.]
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Forty Acres and a Mule.
April 22, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Crank.. perhaps another step towards Euroball?
“Also depending on past statistics and projecting them into future results is faulty and a crutch for your flawed logic.”
I have this argument with all ppl that a religious to stats… to no avail FAQ! Stats are a nice way to tell you what HAS happened and in no way tell you what WILL happen. They might give you a slight indication of what MAY happen. And thats not better then my cat picking the winner. Until someone comes us with an algorithm that can predict the EXACT outcome of games, using past stats.. stats are as pretty much useless. And believe me ppl are trying to find one!
Not to mention the game of bball involves so many unmeasurable “things” .. stats are only part of the story.
April 22, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Those who think that stats, in general, are my schitck … couldn’t possibly be farther from the truth.
April 22, 2008 at 1:41 pm
we just gotta get rid of the black guys on this team and get more euros…seriously,the experiment with all the black guys has failed.
April 22, 2008 at 1:44 pm
khandor..
I never said you didn’t have it in you.. it just that you SEEM to lean more on one then the other… the “one” approach method that is
shooting, to me, implied guns..hence the duel analogy ..”aiming” maybe would have cleared that up..
and either way it don’t take away from what trying to say.. we are discussing and debating..its not a competition in the sense that a clear winner can be determined.. it just what you choose to believe or convincing the audience your way is “better” not “right”.. and if you are going to try and “win” .. or convince someone to see things your way..the approach is half the battle.. where did skiles get long term in Chicago with his method..
yes you are correct… I may see your way better then others… but its up to you to make sure they don’t misinterpret you.. and it has nothing to do with getting them to “like” you .. its about respecting you…and they cannot do that cuz you don’t allow them… you seem to take the time to crush their view more then re emphasize yours …
in bball they have the benefit of their actions (play) do the talking for them.. so regardless of what a guys says you can respect him for his game… here you just get to use your words.. and HOW as in method you use them impacts the respect you will get…
I hate Duncan but respect his game..
I’m sorry I’m an immigrant and I was deprived as a child.. the wizard of oz reference left me blank stares.. LOL…
i dunno.. hope that i undrestood you there.. and that i made sense
April 22, 2008 at 1:59 pm
FLUX,
I, too, am just a simple immigrant.
Then, again … aren’t WE all?
It is NOT always up to you to make sure that you are not mis-interpreted by others.
If they mis-interpret you, that is their problem.
Remember I asked you once … if you are familiar with the classic story of the Great Chinese Warlord, the training of his army, and his two most favoured concubines?
If you’re familiar with this story … you would already be able to see exactly what I’m talking about when I say that it isn’t always the case that you SHOULD make sure that you haven’t been misinterpreted by others and that, if you have, it is always your responsibility to put your message in terms that are palatable to the receivers of your message.
In fact, according to the Warlord … there are times when the exact opposite is precisely what you MUST do, in order to find Success.
When it comes to interpreting my messages correctly …
Others need to be more like you … you do not need to be more like them.
re: Little Dot & The Wiz … rent the Movie at Blockbuster … it’s worth the cost, from the perspective of understanding better N.A. popular culture.
April 22, 2008 at 2:01 pm
muhdik.. that was like 5 years ago that experiment failed.. according to some ppl anyway.. and we are just in the transition period..and clearly the mix has failed as well.. now BC has reason to go for the all international team.. that I think won’t work either tho.. cuz not many, if any, euros have success in the playoffs… but hey at least the ACC will probably be sold out and the franchise will be making money ..and who knows maybe it they are all euros the team ball play will prevail.. it does seem to give americans trouble in international play
khandor.. its not your whole shtick.. but i would say you its one of your fav. weapons in the arsenal… :P…
April 22, 2008 at 2:13 pm
kahador.. totally agree with last comment..
no not familiar.. its on the list..
that said.. would it be fair to say then that the approach would be dependant on your audience (enemy)? That’s why I was saying that you should take into account who the posters are …especially when its impossible to determine it on here… the other thing is that other read the interactions.. and form opinions based on that… without taking the time to interact with you themseleves..
I guess really all of this would depend on the ultimate goal.. and I think here its just to have fun and support the team while playing coach/manager/owner.. then again it could be to crush everyones spirit… although you can’t have everyone like you .. i understand that.. but in general we all TRY not to at least upset others.. and it SEEMS at times you MAY do so however unintentional it may be.. we as your cyberfriends are just trying to tell you YOU SEEM to do it more then others… looking for a happy median I guess.
no one wants you to leave.. and those that can’t take obviously are not forced to come here..
April 22, 2008 at 2:45 pm
faq: i probbly would be happy if the uniforms were changed as a raptors fan. howard is a monster, hedu is a sick player, i love rashard (overpaid as he is). they are much better positioned to be an eastern conference power house then the raptors.
style of play wise, they are the kind of offensive team i like seeing:
1. dominant interior player
2. great shooters
3. slashers
if they can clean up their perimeter defense, and get a real point, they are legit contenders for the championship, in my estimation anyways.
on the flip side, if the raptors add some toughness/rebounding, a slashing/defending three, and figure out the forderon mess, AND get a real coach, they too will be bad ass.
i understand every team has their flaws, and i am pretty tough on the raptors, but i am entitled i think. i support these cock suckers year in and out, blog about them, buy their tshirts, go to games, whatever. i praise them when they win, and piss on them when they lose and in between, point out things i think are issues that need to be resolved. sorry for the tangent…
arse: i gotta stop workign so hard during the day, i miss the wicked back and forth on ur posts!
April 22, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Fight! Fight! Fight!
As much as I’m enjoying the entertaining FLUXLAND/khandor exchange, let’s focus on game 2. This is, after all, a Craptors blog.
It is important that we remain contextual in the midst of all the “BC has failed, blow up the team” banter. The man has a plan. Let’s give him a shot.
I don’t think you can categorize the attributes of a player into silos such as “Euro” (or “World”) or “North American”. There are Euros that play a North American Style and vice versa.
It’s definitely true that there are different bball coaching styles and philosophies globally, but in the NBA a successful team is a cohesive unit of players with different styles that complement each other (regardless of geographic background). This flexibility offers the opportunity for the coach to design favourable matchups vs the opponent, especially in the playoffs.
Of course, that’s all predicated on having the appropriate talent level (players AND coaches) across the board… something we’re sorely lacking at this point in BC’s plan.
April 22, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Magic are laying 7:
http://www.betus.com/sportsbook/nba-basketball-lines.aspx
I’d pick the Raps.
Birdman, thanks for the words of wisdom. They key is to get the right mix of players which the Raptors haven’t done yet. I love Argentinians like Scola and Oberto, those are players that can win you games by doing the dirty work. Would love to see us make a move for that type of player.
April 22, 2008 at 3:16 pm
FLUX,
re: Me & Stats
There are definitely some stats (one or two, perhaps) that have a lot of meaning.
I’ll give you an example of a simple stat that I like to site on occasion, as an example of truth, pertaining to the NBA.
In the last 40 years of the NBA … there might not be a single championship-winning team that has had a main Point Guard that was under 6-0 tall AND weighed under 175-80 lbs … which, if true, means that there have been 40 teams with a main Point Guard that was 6-0 tall or over and at least 180 lbs or more.
Now … once we accept these numbers as fact, not fiction … others are more than welcome to disagree with my ‘interpretation’ of that (admittedly) limited set of data … but, to me, it seems to be the case that … it is extremely difficult, if not maybe impossible for a team … regardless of how good it might be … to actually win the championship (someday?) if it chooses to go with a Main Point Guard who is under 6-0 tall AND weighs less than 175-80 lbs.
Now … if someone would like to discuss with me the reasons behind this UNUSUAL phenomenon which seems to present itself in the NBA then maybe we can discuss how the rules of the game, or the size of the other players on the court, or the strategic thinking of the coaches at this level, etc., actually effect this situation and may have contributed to this environment, whereby a smallish PG only has but 1 role to play on an NBA team that considers itself to be a serious contender to win the NBA championship.
Of course … 40 bits of data do not make up a statistically representative pool of trials … BUT in this instance nothing else is relevant as these 40 individual bits of data are ALL THAT WE CAN EVER HOPE TO HAVE with any degree of validity toward the NBA game which has specific rules of play that are completely unique.
Therefore, when I use the 40-0 ’stat’ to explain how anyone who disagrees with the perception that Jose Calderon, as a main Point Guard in the NBA, is a superior player, in comparison to TJ Ford … might not, in fact, know what they are talking about … it is really not a problem, from my perspective, if that individual isn’t willing to accept the rightness of my perception and prefers instead to hold onto their belief that Ford is somehow a better PG, in the NBA, than Calderon.
In this specific case, this simple ’stat’ isn’t bias against TJ Ford and neither am I.
That’s the kind of stat I like.
April 22, 2008 at 3:18 pm
flux u dummy.whether we put out a team of homosexuals the building will still be sold out if they can ball regardless of color,creed,race or sexual preference u idiot….u faggots harping on “the euro experiment” make me sick….i was saying ditch the black guy experiment in jest.
April 22, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Birdman,
———————————————————–
re: The man has a plan. Let’s give him a shot.
———————————————————–
The man’s plan doesn’t work.
It didn’t work in Phoenix.
And from what I’ve seen to this point … neither will it work in Toronto.
The type of basketball philosophy which Bryan Colangelo has will not bring a championship to the Toronto Raptors.
If what I’m interested in doing is supporting an NBA team that is actually trying to win the NBA championship … why, oh, why, should I … or someone like me … ever agree to give the man’s plan a chance to succeed in Toronto … when I know it’s not going to bring a championship to this team?
April 22, 2008 at 3:34 pm
@Birdman: Fight? or (on my part semi-)intelligent discussion?
there was bball talk in there.. you know .. stuff about rebounding and matchups and whatnot… lol :P
also any talk about the Raps right now is not so much fun.. we are doomed either way you flip it..
—-
@khandor.. just for fun: Iverson(barley 6 feet..c’mon you know this)
and: Ty Lue?
I know I’m reaching.. but it’s in fun and sake of “there is a chance” argument.
—
@muhdik.. sticks and stones buddy.. stick and stones.
I’m not even going to answer to that since you are joining this discussion much too late.
April 22, 2008 at 3:38 pm
FLUX,
Ty Lue was never a Main PG for any championship NBA team … and Iverson played the 2-guard spot for that Philly team with Eric Snow at the PG-spot.
April 22, 2008 at 3:39 pm
What do you guys think of this look?
April 22, 2008 at 3:39 pm
yuck.
April 22, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Arse if I may offer my 2 worthless pennies.. it would be cooler if the comments section was the size or look ala SLAM.. so you don’t have to scroll forhours and see more comments simultaneously.
April 22, 2008 at 3:45 pm
FLUX,
It isn’t just the height thing by itself … it’s the combination of the height plus the weight, that really matters … which robs a smallish PG from having the type of Strength, Size & Quickness he needs, in general, to avoid being abused by bigger players in an array of defensive and rebounding situations in the NBA game.
Deron Williams, for example, on account of his size … never mind his superior skill set … is a much better PG for a championship calibre team to have in the NBA … as was on display last night, in his game vs Houston, when D-Will shifted effortlessly between a range of defensive assignments, always putting the Jazz in the best defensive/rebounding match-up situation possible.
April 22, 2008 at 3:45 pm
khandor.. yeah I knew all that.. how about Zeke? (lets remember actual height claimed is suspect)
April 22, 2008 at 3:47 pm
True.. weight really does matter.. but someone has to come around an break the traditional mold..damn it! lol… why not just play with dudes that are all above 6 3 then?
April 22, 2008 at 3:48 pm
dude, i thought i was bandwidth/computer issue when it loaded like this.
April 22, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Check the records and you will find that Zeke was 180 lbs … which is plenty strong enough to hold his own physically against a slew of bigger checks, at different spots on the floor for a single possesion … until help arrives from the cavalry … i.e. either his coach or his teammates.
Truth be told, Zeke was a BIG little man … with an assassin’s mind-set.
April 22, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Also i cannot stand Williams as a person.. not like i know the guy.. just doesn’t seem very personable..but yes is fun to watch and he is insanely good.
April 22, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Many people do not understand that someone like STEVE NASH … wouldn’t be Steve Nash if it were not for the fact that he is as BIG as he is … which is, in fact, 6-3.
6-3 is solid height for a Main PG in the NBA, for a serious championship calibre team.
Then the dude also MUST also be able to play. :-)
April 22, 2008 at 3:59 pm
I think the whole TJ is better the Jose (for me anyway) is not so much about height and weight.. its about decision making (again last year last play), cajones or killer instinct (TJ is more like Zeke then Jose ever will be), and simply your franchise player (Bosh) liking you or being comfortable with you…and Bosh loves playing with TJ more then Jose.
April 22, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Arse how about just making the commets font smaller as opposed to shrinking the boxes (if that what you are doing.. sorry for lack of technical wording)
April 22, 2008 at 4:04 pm
and moving the time and date to the right of the name/handle
April 22, 2008 at 4:05 pm
khandor - I’m not going to bother pointing out the issues with statements like “I know it’s not going to bring a championship to this team.”
Fact is, you DON’T know. I don’t either - that’s the fun of following the Raps! But, I guess that makes me a ‘casual’ fan… in which case I succumb and should stop posting. Maybe all the blind confidence in your statements is what makes you sound arrogant… meh, it’s not worth writing about.
On a more relevant note, I completely agree with your PG size assessment. Having TJ man the point creates serious size disadvantages on the defensive end that are too difficult to overcome. Jose isn’t a great defender, but at least he has the opportunity to improve. TJ can’t “improve” his size.
Also, what’s the rationale behind the “Bosh hates playing with Euros” argument? Is there any solid evidence of this somewhere?
April 22, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Ummm.. I remember seeing an interview with Bosh where he chose his words carefully regarding Jose and said that I took him a while to start actually listening to what Jose was telling him about whats going on on the court.
Also, what evidence is there that any Euro player and more importantly PG has had playoff success in the NBA? Drazen Petrovic maybe would have had but the man tragically passed away.
April 22, 2008 at 4:18 pm
Birdman, do you agree that TJ can keep his man in front of him better than Jose and is better at preventing dribble penetration?
April 22, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Birdman,
Do not think for second that I don’t know what you are trying to say to me.
Instead, think for a second or two … what it is that I might actually be trying to say to you, for a change-of-pace.
The Sun rose this morning.
The Sun rose yesterday morning … and the day before that, as well, etc.
Now, despite the fact that one of these days there’s a chance the Sun will NOT rise in this world in which WE live … do you ‘think’ the Sun is going to rise tomorrow? or, do you ‘know’ that it is going to rise, as it has so many times before, without exception?
(cause, in fact, if it doesn’t rise the chances are pretty good that neither you nor I will be here to see it)
April 22, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Khandor, I’m lost in that analogy. Way over my head.
I’m getting excited about the game tonight, might have to skip the Caliper test I’m taking later on today. My Dad scored pretty high, sign him up as our starting C - the Mofo can shoot!
April 22, 2008 at 4:25 pm
khandor.. i want to know what you think of comment #60
arse.. why are you taking that test, if I may ask? Also, how did you not get that? :P
April 22, 2008 at 4:33 pm
khandor: “Do not think for second that I don’t know what you are trying to say to me” - Excellent! Finally! But, please stop equating baskeball prognostications with celestial cycles.
Arsenalist: yes, I agree with that - TJ is quicker and hence better at keeping his man in front of him. Jose constantly tries to run under screens on shooters which bugs me to no end. TJ runs into serious issues with PGs who post up; in fact, he’s exposed VERY often on switches because he’s usually a great deal smaller than anyone on the floor and isn’t strong enough to put up a fight.
April 22, 2008 at 4:36 pm
FLUX,
In that regard, you are absolutely correct … if Jose Calderon can one day lead his NBA team to a championship he will be the first PG not born in the USA to accomplish this feat (I think).
That said, there was a time a ways back where certain people didn’t think that a quarterback who had a different colour complexion from all the others who preceded him would be able to lead his team to an NFL championship. Eventually, and thankfully, the people who thought like that were proven to be WRONG.
——————————————————–
Personal Note: This is not the same thing, however, as saying that a too smallish PG doesn’t have the same chance to succeed in leading his team to the NBA championship … because such discrimination based on height does not fall into the same category as baseless discrimination based on nationality, ethnicity or race.
——————————————————–
The country of birth for an NBA Point Guard is irrelevant in terms of his ability to lead his team to an championship … what matters is that player’s Height, Weight, Quickness, Bball IQ, Leadership, Skill Set, etc.
April 22, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Birdman,
If it’s 40-0 … then it’s not a mere prognostication, it’s the equivalent of an NBA celestial cycle.
(BTW, what a great term you coined, right there)
April 22, 2008 at 4:38 pm
I’m joking, I’m not taking any test. I just re-read it and I see the context. I’m watching the Chelsea/Liverpool semi-final right now and can’t get over the fact that Arsenal deserved to be there. Fuck.
I’ll tell you what I think of #60. You’re right on the height part and how Jose’s advantage is in decision making but I think that part of TJ’s game is still developing (remember, he’s 2 years younger) and given the way he ended the season I think he’s starting to realize how he needs to play. Just like you say judge Bargs in 2 years, I say judge TJ in 2 years - he’s destined to be a pretty damn good PG in this league.
April 22, 2008 at 4:39 pm
… which is gonna happen whether or not you and me believe in it’s rightness or not.
April 22, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Arsenalist,
TJ being pretty darn good … isn’t good enough for me.
I’m interested in the Raptors main PG being good enough to win a championship someday, and Ford does not fit in that role.
April 22, 2008 at 4:49 pm
See khandor it’s the surety with which you say that which I don’t understand. Neither Jose or TJ have shown that they are “good enough to win a championship someday”, so if I pick TJ over Calderon, I’m not wrong because Calderon hasn’t done anything in his career to warrant an automatic selection between the two. The same works the other way around.
April 22, 2008 at 4:55 pm
co sign arse # 75 .. but I think the height/weight argument is what leads him to believe Jose has the better chance and in turn gives TJ none..
also arse.. TJ has some emotional developing to do.. but I don’t hold that against a young buck not taking a seat back to anyone.. if he were 35 and acting that way i would call him an idiot
April 22, 2008 at 4:56 pm
On a side note Arenas is costing the Wizards the series, nice comic here:
http://www.waitingfornextyear.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/cavswiz2.PNG
April 22, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Arsenalist,
As an aside …
as my resident EPL guru, can you fill me in a bit on this ‘business’ I’m hearing today, re: Ashley Cole, and his reported cheating on his main squeeze with a ‘less-than-stellar looking female skank’?
Must admit a soft spot for England’s international’s who forever seem to have been brought down to earth (with a celestial thud) by repeated dallying in this type of off the field distraction.
PS. Maybe you could just fill me in an email rather than clutter up your Raptors blog?
April 22, 2008 at 5:04 pm
khandor.. that was light years ago no? Re: Cole…
OK.. I’m getting pumped for the game now..like Arse although I still don’t see us winning.. playing better def. winning no way!
April 22, 2008 at 5:07 pm
Jose’s got a new blog, seems devastated after Game 1. Apparently had a tweaked muscle:
http://www.josemanuelcalderon.com/docs/080420_ben.pdf
Khandor, that is old news man:
http://entertainment.oneindia.in/music/international/2008/ashley-cheryl-cole-hairdresser-affair-290108.html
April 22, 2008 at 5:08 pm
It’s not really that hard to decipher.
Ford was a solid NCAA Point Guard whose team didn’t win the US national championship.
Calderon was a solid FIBA Point Guard whose team won the World Championship.
Ford is 5-10/11-6-0, 165 lbs.
Calderon is 6-3, 210 lbs.
Ford is shooting what % from Behind the Arc?
Calderon is shooting what % from 3-ville?
Ford’s TO:AST is what?
Calderon’s TO:AST is what?
Ford’s body language would be described as what?
Calderon’s body language would be described as what?
Ford finishes at the rim in a way that you would best describe as what level of consistency?
Calderon finishes at the rim in a way thay you would best describe as what level of consistency?
Ford shoots his FT’s at what %?
Calderon shoots his FT’s at what %?
Ford’s type of team Leadership would best be described as being?
Calderon’s type of team Leadership would best be described as being?
etc., etc., etc.
April 22, 2008 at 5:13 pm
khador … I must agree with you that TJ is not good enough to carry the current edition of the Raptors to beyond the first round … but surely it is also a judgement on the entire team not being good enough either.
(I have shared my fantasy of TJ playing backup to declining Nash on PHX team, where TJs and Nash’s PG style are complementary. TJ could be a great understudy to Nash, who is showing wear and tear. PHX don’t have a solid backup PG for Nash and if Nash went down the Suns would collapse.)
What I see is a Raptors team that is disconnected in it’s overall playing style. Switching PGs during a game only confuses all the other players .. not a good situation. If the Raptors had two Calderon-type PGs and playing a deliberate Euro-style bball, that might be much more effective.
Can you imagine what the Raptor’s coaching staff must be going through trying to blend TJ and Jose into rest of the team … hit and miss … ??!!!
April 22, 2008 at 5:15 pm
FLUX & Birdman,
Ford is definitely quicker than Calderon … but Ford does not do a better job of keeping his check in front of him, either in half or full court situations, vs picks or not.
Ford SHOULD be better than Calderon is at this but in real terms he is not.
Calderon does not get shot OVER nor passed OVER nearly as much as Ford does by opponent PG’s.
Calderon does not get rebounded OVER by 1/2/3/4/5’s nearly as much as Ford does by opponent players.
Calderon does not get Posted-Up by opponent players nearly as much as Ford does.
April 22, 2008 at 5:18 pm
khandor, give him 2 years. The guy has too much talent to not be a Top 5 PG in the league, the question is whether he’ll get a coach who can harness his ability.
He’s shooting 88% from the line and 47% from the field in an injury plagued year, c’mon man, cut him some slack. Their finishing around the rim is the same and their….wait…let’s not get into a TJ/Jose debate. I’m saying TJ will be a very good player in this league and going with him as the designated starting PG would not be a bad choice. I’ll take Jose in that role too but that’s not a slight against TJ at all.
Just like you guys want me to have patience with Bargs, I ask for the same in return here.
April 22, 2008 at 5:24 pm
FAQ,
The problem with Ford in Phoenix is that he is no where near as good as Nash on Offense, executing the Pick & Roll/Series … because he cannot shoot the 3-ball at a high enough %, like Nash does … andthen, secondly, Ford is not nearly ‘Big enough’, as a PG, defensively and in terms of rebounding, to assume the main PG role, should Nash ever go down to an injury.
Do the research yourself … but I think you might be surprised to find out just how ‘Big’ Leandro Barbosa actually is.
LB is a terrific combo guard and a more than adequate back-up PG for Nash … now that they have melded their staple 4 out/1 in offensive structure with a more conventional 3 out/2 in set favoured by the vast majority of top notch NBA contenders down through the years.
April 22, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Arsenalist,
TJ Ford is not more talented than Nate ‘Tiny’ Archibald was in his heyday, nor another all-time NBA great like Calvin Murphy … and both of those superior talents had to learn and accept their roles as established back-ups (i.e. NON-STARTERS) for elite level teams in the NBA.
The major problem with Ford on the Raptors roster right now … is HIS refusal to accept that THIS IS THE BEST ROLE FOR HIM TO PLAY IF WHAT HE TRULY WANTS IS TO BE PART OF A CHAMPIONSHIP NBA TEAM, i.e. as a back-up to Jose Calderon.
I do NOT want you to have patience with Bargnani either.
April 22, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Please don’t make me laugh by mentioning NBA Championship and the Raptors in the same paragraph. What’s best for TJ Ford is to find a team that plays an up-tempo style and has agile players who run the break, cut and can finish. If you’re playing at a high level, TJ can meet you there. If you’re being aggressive and showing yourself in the paint, TJ is the ideal PG for you. Unfortunately, the Raptors exhibit none of those qualities and need a slower more methodical PG like Calderon who can spoon-feed them points.
I gotta run. See you after the game, thanks for the discussion.
April 22, 2008 at 5:48 pm
So which team is going to show up tonight .. the RAPTORS or the RATPORS ..??!!!
April 22, 2008 at 5:55 pm
Arsenalist,
Notice that each of the strengths you mentioned re: TJ are focused exclusively on Offense.
Championship teams in the NBA have a main PG who can contribute effectively … on Offense, on Defense, and in terms of Rebounding.
Serviceable ‘back-up players’ in the NBA have strengths in only 1 of these 3 broad phases of the game.
April 22, 2008 at 7:37 pm
khandor, it’s almost like you’re implying that Calderon is a better defender than TJ which is insane. They both have major issues but TJ has the lateral quicks to get the edge. Before you go into how guards post-up TJ consider that they do the same with Calderon.
April 22, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Arsenalist,
Believe it or not … in the NBA … Jose Calderon hurts his team less defensively & in terms of rebounding than does TJ Ford.
That’s exactly what I’m saying.
April 22, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Actually, TJ is a more talented rebounder than Jose despite the size differences.
Arsenalist, you’re right that guards post up Calderon too, but at least he has the size/strength to limit the opposing player from backing in too far.
As khandor mentioned earlier, TJ seems to get shot and passed over often due to his (lack of) height; definitely more often than Jose.
What a second quarter!
April 22, 2008 at 10:23 pm
1) Birdman,
I agree that Ford is a more ‘talented’ rebounder than Calderon but despite this fact … Calderon is still the one between the two of them who gives up fewer Offensive Rebounds to the man he’s checking at the time.
Calderon is the PG who hurts his team less defensively & in terms of rebounding.
2) For those who think that Calderon doesn’t have the heart required to take & make big shots/plays coming down the stretch of important games … and you still think this way after the 4th Quarter of tonight’s game then you didn’t watch the same game as I did.
Tough, tough loss tonight for the Raptors.
April 22, 2008 at 10:26 pm
khandor… one game is not gonna make me a believer..especially a game that wasn’t do or die..
April 22, 2008 at 11:00 pm
FLUX,
Nor would I expect anyone else to believe what I am saying, at this time, when I know full well that I tend to see what’s actually there well before others do … e.g. when I knew during his 1st year in the NBA that Jose Calderon had the ability to be a top notch PG in this League while he was playing understudy to Mike James and most other Raptors’ observers still had severe doubts that Jose would ever succeed as a ‘regular’ PG in the NBA, never mind as an All-Star calibre player with an individual game as good as someone like John Stockton, a NBA icon.
April 22, 2008 at 11:02 pm
Holy comments. Were you guys bored today or what?
April 22, 2008 at 11:03 pm
To be honest, as unbelievable as this may sound..I was playing that horn too at the time. Last year, last play changed everything for me..not many players change their rep in the playoffs after the first shot at it.
April 22, 2008 at 11:05 pm
We are shooting for 100 Ellie.. a first on this blog I assume…where were you at man? Join the party! Pull up a keyboard, already!
April 22, 2008 at 11:29 pm
FLUX,
re: last year’s final
As we’ve already discussed, you and I will just have to agree to disagree about that specific play.
When the years ahead unfold for Jose … it will be interesting to see which one of us turns out to be right about him and which one turns out to be wrong.
April 22, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Well I might as well drop by to aid you to your 100 comments. :p
Tough tough game tonight though.
April 23, 2008 at 12:02 am
Just completed the Game 2 post. Tough game.
http://arsenalist.com/2008/04/23/game-2-heartbreak-mitchell-draws-up-middle-school-play-with-09-left/
Thanks for the 100 comments. I believe its happened once before on an Arsenal post and once on a technology post, but never on a Raptors one.
April 23, 2008 at 7:59 am
100! WOOOHOOO! I’m sure Arse doesn’t like that some of was not all bball but 100 anyway! HAHA!
khandor.. i look forward to finding out! :P