T’Wolves hardly challenge as Raptors aim for a 8-4 month
Posted by Arsenalist on February 28, 2008
A nice evening for the Raptors, not too much effort expended in an easy win over the Timberwolves which takes us to 8 games over .500. February’s almost over, a home win against Indiana will put us at 33-24 and we’ll end up going 8-4 for the month instead of the earlier anticipated 9-3. The Orlando win offset the Clippers loss but it’s the breakdown in NY that’s going to stop this month from being an ideal one. Even so, we’ve put enough space between us and the .500 mark that even if we struggle in the tough month of March, we’ll have a chance to secure home-court advantage in the first round. And with Orlando’s easy schedule and Cleveland bulking up, it’s all you can hope for.
Before we get to the game (and there’s hardly much to talk about), there’s news that the Celtics have signed PJ Brown for the remainder of the year. It’s a nice pickup for the Celtics and a signing that will pay dividends come playoff time, this is the third key pickup for Boston aside from the Big 3. The key signings of James Posey and Eddie House went almost undetected when they happened but they’ve been a big part of Boston’s success. PJ Brown will add a gritty inside presence and a reliable mid-range jumper, it’s something that’ll fit in Boston. Primoz Brezec looks to be an entertaining pickup that also happens to hit the boards and I’m glad to have him, but if we’re playing rent-a-rebounder, a proven veteran like Brown would’ve also been sweet.
A possible second round matchup took place tonight between Boston and Cleveland (I’ll get to our game soon, don’t worry) and the Celtics controlled the proceedings and maintained a comfortable margin throughout the game. Cleveland looks to have failed their first real test and immediately one tries to look at it from a Raptors perspective and ask the question, can we beat Cleveland in a 7-game series? The logical consensus is a ‘no’, we’re 5-10 against Cleveland in the LBJ/Bosh era but have always managed to play them tight. If you go along with the “let Lebron go off and contain everybody else” philosophy, you notice that there’s not anybody else who can really threaten you offensively. Wally Szczerbiak and Joe Smith will be battling to be #2 on that team, that’s not exactly great. Their advantage against us lies in their rebounding line of Ilgauskas, Wallace and Varejao and if we’re able to play even on the boards through a strategy as simple as pulling their big men out of the paint, we might have a fighting chance. It depends entirely on how well we shoot the ball and box-out on the defensive boards. It’s quite a tall-order and the odds are stacked against us but we’re capable of the task if we get scoring from Bargnani and strong defensive efforts from Brezec/Rasho/Hump. Am I thinking like a homer? Probably.
Back to the game at hand. For the second straight game we managed to outrebound our opponent on both the offensive and defensive glass. Bosh met with little resistance en route to his 28/7 (why he played a game-high 41 minutes in a blowout is mind-blogging) and TJ Ford was stellar again with 16 points. Bargnani had some nice drives to the rim and Kapono found the stroke (from 2-pt range) to ice this one in the third. The T’Wolves started well enough but the effort they exerted in building their early 10 point lead was far too great to sustain and they fizzled gradually starting from midway through the first quarter all the way to the end. Towards the end you felt sorry for the hard-working Al Jefferson and the situation he’s in, a poor salary situation and a GM who often mistakes mediocrity for talent. Minnesota’s not exactly a hot spot for NBA players and Garnett was the reason anybody signed there as a free agent, they’re well on their way to being as obscure as they were before KG came to town.
You’re probably heard about TJ ’s comments that Jose should start the rest of the season; here they are in case you haven’t:
“I think Jose is doing a good job as a starter, he should continue to start probably for the rest of the year. I don’t think starting is a big deal to me, I just want to get out and help the team win, and at the end of the day it’s all about wins and losses.”
The reason I bring this up is that there’s a general perception that TJ Ford is a selfish player who looks for his shot first before anything else. That he is easily upset when things aren’t going right for him and tends to jack it up and singlehandedly carry the team. Calderon is obviously a very nice guy (I mean, the guy used to end hsi blogs by saying ‘hugs and kisses’) and people view him as being the ultimate team player which he very well might be. However, that does not mean that TJ isn’t. Sometimes his high shot count is interpreted as being selfish and to the detriment of the team. The problem with that line of thinking is that if TJ doesn’t do that, he’s not going to be nearly as effective. Part of his shtick is to score on opposing PGs via a short jumper so that they’re forced to come out and defend him, that way he can use the real advantage of quickness to create for his teammates. A TJ who’s not making his mid-range jumper is a TJ that’s ineffective. That’s why I’m of the belief that he needs to get his shot going, before his injury he was nailing everything in the 14-17ft range and over the last couple games it’s clear that he’s on his way to regaining that form. Ultimately, Ford like Calderon, will be happy if the team is winning. They’re both fierce competitors that take a lot of pride in their game but want to be measured by wins and losses.
Once the off-season arrives, one of them may very well end up being traded to tend to some other need. If it’s agreeable and financially feasible, there’s no harm in having both PGs stay put, in the Eastern conference, the PG spot still remains the position where this club will have an advantage every single night. Bryan Colangelo in a Fan 590 interview gave all the reasons why this team is still pretty good and firmly believes in Bargnani’s game and attributes his struggles to injury et al. If you want to hear the interview with Chuck and BC sounding like chipmunks, go ahead:
His assessment of the Cavalier trade isn’t that great.
The T’Wolves coming off a back-to-back didn’t give us anything interesting to talk about. If you missed the game, check out Eric Smiths’ blog, he’s got a nice little recap of the game. This game was so boring that even Raptors Talk is at a loss for words. Top Rap? Hmmm….let’s give it to Jamario Moon who ran the floor well enough and only took two bad jumpers, making one of them. Indiana on Friday should be similar and then things get very interesting in March where we have a stretch of 8 out of 10 games on the road. That’ll tell us just exactly how good this team is and what we can expect in the playoffs.
On the subway coming home from work I saw this young couple getting so excited to watch the Raptors. I hoped it’d be an exciting game so they’d get their moneys worth. Poor bastards.
Till tomorrow.
February 28, 2008 at 1:24 am
Those chipmunk voices are hilarious…couldn’t stop laughing..
Boring game, if we would’ve lost this it was going to be a crisis.
I think we have to trade one of the two PGs in the offseason, I like them both and want them here but if we want to get better we have to give up something of value. If TJ has a good playoff his trade value will increase and he’ll become the odd man out since BC has already said he wants Jose back. That article in the Toronto Star that talked about TJ creating shots for Kapono came at an opportunte time. I counted JK missing 4 shots created by TJ.
—-
United4Eva
February 28, 2008 at 1:27 am
PJ “Im really not retired, honest” Brown?
No thanks. I’ll take Primo any day of the week. And PJ hasn’t been consistent with that shot for some time now.
He’s done like dinner.
The Celtics are simply too small and have to play too tight to the perimiter to beat big teams. They are so open to the pick and roll to the hoop if executed patiently.
Now, Cleveland game doesn’t rwally prove anything because:
a) Lebron had to leave the game for a while–they lost by two possessions.
b) Boobie Gibson is still out. He is CLEARLY their major weapon off of the defence collapsing on Lebron. He can score like 25-30 points off the BS. poor shots that Szerbiak tries to make.
c) They’ve had, like 2 days to script some plays and play together?
Now, don’t get me wrong. I’m not exactly a fan of the trade either.
In my opinion, the Cavs DOWNGRADED with the trade.
Why?
1.) Cleveland was already big enough– What is difference between Drew Gooden and Joe Smith? Age and talent. I think you know who is better. Drew is simply a more agile shotblocker and rebounder, as well as a younger, faster player, plus he’s already been to the finals with Lebron. How does getting a guy who does the same things worse and more slowly help Lebron? How does another center who can’t shoot improve Cleveland’s spacing (Wallace)? Sure, I guess they give Biz Z a blow, but given they don’t have Hughes to create spacing anymore, who’s gonna score on the bench?
2.) Szerbiak Sucks. Related point: So does Delonte West. Both are very weak defensively and slower than the players they are replacing. Again, I ask you, how does this help Lebron? His perimiter d help just took a vacation. I saw him trying to guard Mo williams yesterday because NONE OF THE GUARDS COULD STAY IN FRONT OF HIM. Sure, they have some shotblockers but…meh. And their offence, well, let’s say they approach former Raptor Donyell Marshall for streakiness. Delonte West couldn’t win the point guard job in SEATTLE!! How is he going to fare on a better team?
3.) Hughes was starting to heat up– Sure, Hughes stays healthy about as long as my old grandmother, but when he’s on, he is fabulous. I maintain he was central to Lebron getting spacing to the hoop bwecause of his ability to drive the ball. It also allowed Lebron to take breaks and not have to run offence every five seconds.
Now, he is forced to take the ball up, beat three guys and still get the and one. It’s too much work to ask of him. Now, he’s getting thirty with the Bulls. If he now stays healthy, Cleveland traded low and got back almost bupkis.
Grade: F. This one smells of bad desperation.
Your comment would be appreciated.
February 28, 2008 at 1:56 am
David and Raptors2009 are nocturnal like me, good to know I have company.
I think you might be right on the PJ Brown thing, maybe I’m hung up in nostalgia. No complaints with Brezec but playoff experience is something that Brown would definitely help out with. I still think it’s a good pickup for Boston and he’ll surprise a few people.
They Cavs may have downgraded in the long run, but in the short-term, they’ve improved their chances of winning the East. I still think Detroit is the team to beat but Cleveland has improved. Drew Gooden is the better player but I think Cleveland was comfortable swapping Gooden for Smith as long as it netted them Wallace. They obviously believe that he can still be a force and contain KG or Wallace in a 7-game series. That to me is the real reason for the trade.
The Sczerbiak for Hughes swap was to help out with their perimeter shooting, with Gibson out they needed somebody to open things up. Larry Hughes might be an OK defender but his 3FG sucks ass at 29%. Chicago is his 5th team for a reason: when teams acquire him they see potential but once he plays a few games they realize that for a SG he sure can’t shoot (40%) and can’t create through his passing. When you say “when he’s on, he is fabulous”, what are you referring to? He goes into mini-streaks where he scores 6 straight points once in a while but that’s not a reason to hang on to him. AP does that too. You might be giving him too much credit for Lebron’s spacing.
This trade was consummated because Lebron got frustrated losing out on Bibby and Kidd and wanted to see a move made for the sake of it (as mentioned by BC in his interview).
Cleveland’s putting all their eggs in two forwards and two guards: Lebron, Wallace, Gibson, Sczerbiak.
I’ll hold giving a grade on the trade but I’d say they’ve added playoff experience through veterans by giving up some serviceable younger players. Based on how the players were playing at this moment in time, it’s a lateral move . If they lose to Boston or Detroit in the second round, then I’ll give it a F. Giving up Drew Gooden was stupid but that was the price to get a former DPOY and they thought it was worth it.
February 28, 2008 at 3:59 am
Alright. So then, have you seen DPOY Wallace around lately? I must have missed him these 2 years.
Ben is getting old. He’s cagey, he’s a playoff performer, but he doesn’t have quite the hops he had just a scant few years ago. Again, Cleveland’s main problem is SCORING. Getting Ben Wallace does nothing to address this. I guess that “veteran experience” does help–but confidence was never the Cavs problem–they’ve got Lebron. That’s where their intangible is, not in the experience. If they play the Spurs, sure, he might help.
But against the mobile and talented KG? Really?
I doubt it.
I didn’t mention his shooting percentage because that wasn’t my point…my point was that he can handle the rock and penetrate. Any defence is so concentrated on Lebron that if they can get penetration to the hoop, who’s going to help? Oh yeah, nobody. You are underrating Hughes versatility. Is he streaky? Yeah. Better than one trick pony Szerbiak? Definitely. Yeah, he gets hurt a lot. But if he isn’t hurt and being used appropriately as a scoring point, he produces. By the way, he just took Hinrich’s job, as per rotoworld.
And AP can’t penetrate like Hughes does. At all.
Also, it;s a bigger problem than you are suggesting that Lebron has to defend more and carry the ball more. West is lousy at it. He’s an undersized shooter and “and1″ passer.
They gave up WAY more than lateral. Joe Smith is only getting worse.
Ben Wallace is only getting worse. Szerbiak is getting worse. Delonte sucks.
How did they go laterally again?
February 28, 2008 at 9:23 am
David,
re: Cleveland’s recent trades
http://khandorssportsblog.wordpress.com/2008/02/21/cavaliers-just-went-backwards/
Where the Cavs end up finishing in the Eastern Conference Playoff Race is irrelevant. LBJ’s been in the league a while now, and when you’ve got him on your team your goal is Winning the Championship.
In this regard, however, what is very relevant … is whether Cleveland advanced or regressed in comparison to Boston and Detroit?
While others are entitled to see things differently … for me, the Cavs just went backwards, in relation to the Pistons (who stood Pat with a great mix of savvy vets & burgeoning kids) & the Celtics (who are still making serious additions to a very solid team, e.g. PJ Brown and, maybe, Sam-I-Am).
PS. In stark contrast to Cleveland’s back-pedalling, Chicago and New Jersey, both, helped themselves immensely with the solid trades they just made.
February 28, 2008 at 9:33 am
You’re talking as if though I’m a big advocate of this trade and am willing to die in order to defend Cleveland’s honor. I’m not.
Wallace has been crappy since he joined the Bulls but the Cavs are trying to resurrect the old Ben Wallace. They figure Wallace had success when surrounded by other big bodies (Rasheed, McDyess) in Detroit and where his defensive domain wasn’t the entire frontline but his position. Chicago signed him as an “all in one” solution to their big man problems, that’s not what he does. They seriously overrated him. Of the three games he’s played so far, he’s already had 2 double digit rebounding games, checking his game log it took him 8 games to get his previous 2 double-digit rebounding games with Chicago. Look, nobody will argue with you that this is the Ben Wallace of old but Cleveland obviously feels that when surrounded by other big men and Lebron, he’ll have more room to operate and get offensive boards etc. Wallace’s game was gradually declining in Detroit, I don’t know what the Bulls saw in him. Cleveland feels that they’re not asking him to do too much with Smith/Varejao/Big Z around and that he can handle the workload. No, I don’t think he can guard KG, but Cleveland thinks he’ll be able to slow him down with some help.
Let’s look at the “lateral” comment:
Joe Smith ~ Gooden: Almost identical numbers. In the long term, Cleveland loses since Gooden is younger but they added a veteran.
Hughes ~ Sczerbiak: Sczerbiak’s the much better shooter and will compensate for Gibson’s absence. I think he’s not as one-dimensional as you make him sound, we’ll have to disagree there. He’s not a slasher but can drive to the rim when the rim is there for the taking, by no means is he a one-trick-pony like Kapono. They lose Hughes’s quickness but get a better more reliable shooter who’ll make the D pay on Lebron doubles. Once Gibson comes back, Lebron will have to handle the ball much less. Will he have to defend “more”? I don’t know what that means, he’ll still have to defend one player.
Wallace ~ neglibile shit: Cavs take on a bad contract in hopes of tightening up their frontline even further.
As I said in my previous post, they got older with the trade and will probably pay the price next year and the year after. But they wanted to show Lebron that they’re willing to take on salary in order to win and this is a subtle move which they hope might make him extend his Cleveland stay.
February 28, 2008 at 9:52 am
Thank you Arse for reaffirming TJ’s worth as a player and teammate. The Grand Wizards over at Grange’s blog are pushing back at Grange for calling TJ a “high bball IQ” player. Like they know better than Grange, who is around the Raptors and TJ on a daily basis. It’s now 2 games in a row that a healthy TJ has pulled the Raps back from early deficits to ultimately win the game, but to those retards the proof is never in the pudding where TJ is concerned. It’s really a shame that they just can’t rejoice in a players’ worth — especially given all he’s come back from — but even worse, slam him because their man-crush Jose is no longer (burning himself out) playing 40 MPG.
—
Dave Moro, some pretty sharp opinions, eh? Larry Hughes, after 3 games on a new team, is now better than Hinrich, according to Rotoworld? You do realize Hughes is a career 41.1% shooter (29.7% from 3) and even his career final year with the Wizards he was a pathetic FG 43%? Doesn’t it make sense to wait a couple more games before declaring Hughes the saviour for the Bulls, and Wally, West and Wallace cumulative wastes of space for the Cavs?
Wally is overpaid but he’s a hero from his college days in Ohio so it’s a calculated risk that he’d fit in with Cleveland. But to slam West for not fitting in with Seattle is ridiculous. Why, is one player not allowed to be a bad fit on one team and better on another? Two years ago on the Celtics West had 1 steal and 0.5 blocks per game at the PG slot, yet you dismiss him as “very weak defensively”, and that “he sucks” (great analysis there). By your skewed logic there would have been no way Delfino would have amounted to anything on the Raps (regardless of his excellent play for Argentina) because he rode the pine on the Pisons for three years.
You want to use Rotoworld, well, they’re saying that everyone who needs a PG should pick up Delonte because he’ll fit in very well in a system where a wing (LeBron) does much of the ballhandling. Wasn’t the problem with Hughes vis-a-vis Lebron was that they BOTH needed the ball in their hands? You say that Hughes provided “good spacing” for LeBron — have you seriously watched any Cavs games over the past 3 years? One can make the argument that it’s addition by subtraction with Hughes out of Cleveland.
Again, this was in no way a steal for the Cavs, but Ferry had to do something for LeBron’s sake, as there was a pretty slim chance they would beat the Pistons a second time (let alone the Celts) with the team as constituted before the trade. Ever given a thought that a super-motivated Big Ben vs. his old team might be a difference-maker? Your opinions are your own, but I really think your projections should take into account a bit more than the past 3 games since the trade.
February 28, 2008 at 10:07 am
Danny Ferry (GM) panicked … because he lost out on Jason Kidd, who Lebron really wanted to add in Cleveland … and ended up making a ‘poor’ (wholesale exchange of Good[en]s?) trade for Cleveland.
At no time would I expect you (or anybody else) to try and defend Ferry’s thinking, in this regard.
If the Cavs do not make it back to the NBA Finals this season … it will be Mike Brown, first, who takes the fall in Cleveland … when the real culprit here & now - in the aftermath of their trades - should be their GM.
When you’ve a Supreme Talent on your team, like Lebron, you don’t go about creating a championship environment in the way that Mr. Ferry has functioned to this point.
There’s a big difference in how a team ’should’ operate its affairs - on the court - when the heart & soul of its squad is someone like Lebron James (Ferry’s current Lot in Cleveland) compared to when it’s Timmy Duncan (Danny’s formative admin years with San Antonio).
It doesn’t seem to me as though he’s aware of the (’Big Fundamental’s) difference.
February 28, 2008 at 11:05 am
Man…I think I paid more attention to the piece of lint on the floor then the game last night….boring. Sam, it’s time you settled the rotation & started TJ. Calderon is AWESOME with argueable more upside, but TJ has swagger, pentration & kick. Not to mention if you blink you’ll lose track of him. TJ makes the pass that lead to the pass. They should added a ’second assist’ stat. It would be hard to track but would promote passing in the NBA.
I was all ‘for’ the Cleveland trade but it could serious back-fire. Especially after seeing a couple games. The team isn’t use to each other yet. Anything less then winning the East will be a disapointment now. They put serious pressure on a team that played with NO PRESSURE to win last year. I think we’ll see LeBron’s true colours when the team is on the ropes in the playoffs. Will Lebron be a complainer, go down with a mysterious injury, OR carry the team with some ‘Lady Luck’ like last year. Time will tell.
I’d bring Big Ben off the bench to lock down the Center spot. Varejao is more versitly & can score more then Ben. Teams tighten the rotation in the playoffs which could serious reduce his minutes. Sam would look past the BIG contract of Ben and make him earn his minutes if he was a Raptor. Ben off the bench would be effective. Ben wouldn’t like it but… “Ben, what have you done for me lately??” Big Z down low to start. Big Ben bell hasn’t ‘rang’ for a while…
Wow… how boring was the game when people post stuff not related….
February 28, 2008 at 11:10 am
“But they wanted to show Lebron that…”
Exactly. The Cleveland trade was a desperate gamble to appease LeBron… who has a VERY LEGIT beef. The Cavs have utterly failed, so far, to build the right team around LeBron.
And you guys can speculate all you want… but our chances against Cleveland are precisely ZERO. We have NO WAY to stop Lebron… and every game will be decided by LeBron vs the Raps at crunch time. Learn to enjoy watching Superstars shred the Raps.
“Thank you Arse for reaffirming TJ’s worth as a player and teammate.”
Character wise… TJ and Jose are oustanding guys. But Jose is dreaming about the World Championships and his Spanish brothers.. while TJ dreams of winning an NBA Championship. There was a VERY telling moment during last nights game. Leo said every time he runs into Rasho… they talk about his preparations for the World Championships. If the Raps do their annual first round exit… the mercenary Euro Players will just say ** all the right things ** and then race to catch the FIRST flight home. They will be free to concentrate on what really matters… playing in the World Championships for their country. Go Italia. Go Espania. Go Argentina. Go Slovakia.
February 28, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Yeah, that game was a snoozer. The only notable observation I can think of is that my wife caught some glimpses of the game and noted that TJ’s headband looked extra wide on his head. Maybe TJ’s head is small in comparison with his headband, but that was an interesting observation.
Do you think TJ is wearing a special headband as noggin protection?
I agree that trading a PG for a rebounder or scorer this summer would be a more more beneficial situation than keeping both TJ and JC. It’s a tough pill to swallow when you’re tying up so much salary in 2 PGs - when at least one is always on the bench. Instead of having 2 PGs that play 22 mins each (theoretically, assuming they are never on the floor together), keep one PG and get a good rebounder or scorer that will play 30-35 mins.
The idea really is in “marginal benefit”…
Let’s use a point system for performance, where 1 is the league worst and 10 is the league best.
Let’s assume you have no drop-off in performance b/w Calderon and Ford. They have different strengths but both are well above average PGs. Let’s call their abilities an 8 each. So, right now you have no drop-off in marginal benefit swapping between the two.
An average backup PG performs, maybe, at a 5 rating. Losing one of TJ or JC to this player costs you 3 points in performance, but the effect is minimized because we’re talking about, at most, 15 mins per game.
Let’s say Moon is a 5 (he’s average overall, folks). Upgrading him to an 8 or 9-type player is a gain of 3/4 points. BUT, keep in mind that this upgrade is felt over 35 mins of game time, which increases your marginal benefit drastically. As a bonus, the waterfall effect here is that Joey (maybe a 3 or 4 at most) gets bumped for Moon who is on the bench now.
Just some thoughts to float around… I’m really unconvinced that TJ has enough value to net a star SG/SF. We may have to wait until the summer of ‘09 for some serious cap room leading to a significant signing.
February 28, 2008 at 12:32 pm
[...] - Arsenalist [...]
February 28, 2008 at 12:34 pm
My brain hurts….
February 28, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Feel real sorry for all you guys who need to have Raptors play exciting games. I’ll take all the boring WINS I can get from the next 26 games, and be very happy.
February 28, 2008 at 1:06 pm
LOL
arsenalist > at least the couple on the subway go to see the raps win :)
TJ is now in (maybe) top form. What with Jose looking bad (4 games and counting), it’s time to have TJ step up to the plate.
BUT
Tweak it even further. Match TJ with speedy players with good hands, and give Jose the (slower) more methodical guys.
Play to each PG’s strenghts!!!
@ Cleveland > I was never a fan of Danny Ferry since the draft fiasco, I really want to see him fall flat.
February 28, 2008 at 1:15 pm
Forget trading Calderon or Ford. Raptors need both now and next year.
It would be suicide for BC to trade either and have the other injured. The last 2/3 games has shown the benefit of two PG’s who can play & create for 48. Our offense is PG dependent for 48mins. Next year BC has said Ukic will be here as a back-up (3rd)PG. after he has shown what he can do the situation may be different.
This year the task is to sign Calderon and Delfino or a replacement as well as a 1st rnd draft pick.
There will be no big moves till the trading deadline Feb next year with the expiring contracts (Rasho,Garbo,AP,Baston,Graham) for approx 21mil, or free agency in july ‘09.
February 28, 2008 at 1:17 pm
wow…great thread man. i missed a good chuck of work so far reading through this.
just my two cents:
last year, cleveland won the east, beating detroit by playing solid defense, rebounding and forcing the pistons to play one-on-one. they lost to san antonio because lebron simply couldn’t score enough to carry them.
this trade, although i don’t think will win them the championship, has made them the 3rd best team in the east.
they have added power/rebounding/scoring up front between wallace/smith/wally as well as adding a solid pg. they did it a huge cost, but whatever, they have to take advantage of lebron while he is here. come 2009-2010, he will be a knick/bull ;)
February 28, 2008 at 1:19 pm
Your last sentence makes the most sense, Birdman: “We may have to wait until the summer of ‘09 for some serious cap room leading to a significant signing” — but you can probably back that up to the trade deadline of ‘09 when $22 million of Rasho, AP, Garbo, Maceo, Joey and Jamario are off the books (http://hoopshype.com/salaries/toronto.htm), as Johnn19 wrote. I’m fully considering, of course, that there will not actually be $22 million of cap space with the re-upping of Jose and hopefully Carlos.
As for the rest of your numbers, I guess you are attempting to allocate costs to create the most efficient roster, without considering the fact that 48 minutes of stellar PG play will always necessitate overpaying somewhat. Starbury is making $20 million, Iverson $20 million, Kidd $20 million, Baron $16.5 million, Francis $16.5 million. Two of those players are sunk cost garbage, and the other 3 cannot play all 48 minutes. And all of whom are making more than Jose and TJ’s projected combined salaries.
The fact is, every team has dead weight; the Raptors this season have $9 million tied up in *completely* useless Baston, Joey, and unfortunately, Garbo. So to apply all your “marginal benefit” ratios or what not, without considering that the Raptors will not have the most cost-efficient roster this year or next (and probably never will, given unforeseen injuries and such), it is obvious, at least to me, that $16 million tied up in 48 minutes of stellar PG play (when healthy, of course), is well worth keeping Jose and TJ together.
Especially given the above $22 million of contracts coming off the books at the end of 2008-2009 to get a sign a stud SG/SF (free agent list is here: http://www.realgm.com/src_freeagents/2009/). The Raptors can’t afford to throw $120 million at a Rashard Lewis-type, but I’m sure some stud SG/SF can be solicited to sign (or be traded for and then re-upped) in the $10 million range.
February 28, 2008 at 2:12 pm
The world championships are important to them because they’re patriotic people and European sport and nationalism are closely tied (as the OP would know). Why are we holding this against them? Success in the NBA is ultra-important to these guys because they’re athletes and as professional athletes you want to excel at the highest level of your sport which is what the league is. It’s not like they change gears when playing in the NBA and FIBA, if that was happening then Psychic would have a legit point, otherwise he’s just stereotyping them based on I don’t know what.
There are two schools of thought: Trade one of the PGs to get a legit 3 or keep them both and maintain the advantage at the 1. Option 1 makes more sense and is what almost any other NBA team would do. Option 2 sounds romantic but will prevent this team from reaching the next level. It’s not like our second unit destroys the other team so I don’t see a point in hanging on to both, it’s called The Law of Diminishing Returns. You guys get?
February 28, 2008 at 3:17 pm
… and, the best point in time for a championship calibre GM to have cashed in on the ‘Law of Diminishing Returns’, applicable in this situation, was before TJ Ford’s 2nd major injury occurred … which, btw, was almost inevitable, given his medical history prior to arriving in Toronto … rather than sometime after this unfortunate event.
A GM with outstanding ‘basketball acumen’ should/would have been able to see just how good Jose Calderon is (or, for some ‘doubters’ still … was going to become) and traded the player others in the basketball community (mistakenly?) perceived to be the better of these PG’s, at that time, when his (pre- 2nd major injury) value on the open market was at its highest.
Alas, that didn’t happen, in this case …
and, my fear today is that … when push comes to shove …
the same man who misjudged the relative values of Jason Kidd vs Stephon Marbury & Joe Johnson vs Doris Diaw (for the Suns) will eventually have no choice but to pull the trigger on a trade for the Raptors which involves one of his 2 PG’s …
AND then
make a similar miscalculation, once again, this time for the Raptors …
by dealing Calderon (instead of Ford!) … because he (Calderon) is the one who, now, is perceived by others around the NBA as being the better/more valuable player (of the two) … to a team intent on winning a league championship.
February 28, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Your last sentence makes the most sense, Birdman: “We may have to wait until the summer of ‘09 for some serious cap room leading to a significant signing” — but you can probably back that up to the trade deadline of ‘09 when $22 million of Rasho, AP, Garbo, Maceo, Joey and Jamario are off the books, as Johnn19 mentions. I’m fully considering, of course, that there will not actually be $22 million of cap space with the re-upping of Jose and perhaps Carlos.
As for the rest of your numbers, I guess you are attempting to allocate costs to create the most efficient roster, without considering the fact that 48 minutes of stellar PG play will always necessitate overpaying somewhat. Starbury is making $20 million, Iverson $20 million, Kidd $20 million, Baron $16.5 million, Francis $16.5 million. Two of those players are sunk cost garbage, and the other 3 cannot play all 48 minutes. And all of whom are making more than Jose and TJ’s projected combined salaries.
The fact is, every team has dead weight; the Raptors this season have $9 million tied up in *completely* useless Baston, Joey, and unfortunately, Garbo. So to apply all your “marginal benefit” ratios or what not, without considering that the Raptors will not have the most cost-efficient roster this year or next (and probably never will, given unforeseen injuries and such), it is obvious, at least to me, that $16 million tied up in 48 minutes of stellar PG play (when healthy, of course), is well worth keeping Jose and TJ together.
Especially given the above $22 million of contracts coming off the books at the end of 2008-2009 to get a sign a stud SG/SF. The Raptors can’t afford to throw $120 million at a Rashard Lewis-type, but I’m sure some stud SG/SF can be solicited to sign (or be traded for and then re-upped) in the $10-$12 million range. I don’t know what “The Law of Diminishing Returns” means, Wham, considering the combined salaries of TJ and Calderon are worth it to give the Raps a competitive advantage, discounting the fact that EVERY team has a lot of chaff on their roster. It’s not like, if TJ and Jose make $16 million, the Raptors are screwed. At least, not after next February.
February 28, 2008 at 4:23 pm
wham: “Option 2 sounds romantic but will prevent this team from reaching the next level.” that is the best i have ever heard this situation put. man, you had your ginseng this morning huh?
February 28, 2008 at 6:41 pm
On our Friday night’s opponent:
Man found in Pacers’ Williams truck arrested for murder
http://www.globesports.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080228.wsptpacer28/GSStory/GlobeSportsBasketball/home
Since the Jailblazers has already been taken, how about the PaceInYourCellers…?
February 28, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Weird, my earlier post didn’t seem to get posted but my Shawne Williams tidbit did, so I’ll try again:
Your last sentence makes the most sense, Birdman: “We may have to wait until the summer of ‘09 for some serious cap room leading to a significant signing” — but you can probably back that up to the trade deadline of ‘09 when $22 million of Rasho, AP, Garbo, Maceo, Joey and Jamario are off the books, as Johnn19 mentions. I’m fully considering, of course, that there will not actually be $22 million of cap space with the re-upping of Jose and perhaps Carlos.
As for the rest of your numbers, I guess you are attempting to allocate costs to create the most efficient roster, without considering the fact that 48 minutes of stellar PG play will always necessitate overpaying somewhat. Starbury is making $20 million, Iverson $20 million, Kidd $20 million, Baron $16.5 million, Francis $16.5 million. Two of those players are sunk cost garbage, and the other 3 cannot play all 48 minutes. And all of whom are making more than Jose and TJ’s projected combined salaries.
The fact is, every team has dead weight; the Raptors this season have $9 million tied up in *completely* useless Baston, Joey, and unfortunately, Garbo. So to apply all your “marginal benefit” ratios or what not, without considering that the Raptors will not have the most cost-efficient roster this year or next (and probably never will, given unforeseen injuries and such), it is obvious, at least to me, that $16 million tied up in 48 minutes of stellar PG play (when healthy, of course), is well worth keeping Jose and TJ together.
Especially given the above $22 million of contracts coming off the books at the end of 2008-2009 to get a sign a stud SG/SF. The Raptors can’t afford to throw $120 million at a Rashard Lewis-type, but I’m sure some stud SG/SF can be solicited to sign (or be traded for and then re-upped) in the $10-$12 million range.
February 28, 2008 at 7:15 pm
Wham > could keep ‘em both ’til trade deadline of ‘09. As gr8 as TJ has played (and as crap as Jose has played) for the past 4 games, we have to remember, TJ still hasn’t had a full (non-injured) season, it’s something to be wary off (and Roko is still a big unknown + who knows how long it will take him to adapt).