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Yeah, the offseason is slow and to top it all off we don’t have a pick in the draft. I don’t care how many Jose Calderon trade rumours are out there, he’s not going anywhere. So naturally the only thought that comes to mind is to wonder who the best white players in the league really are. Usually this list consisted of Toni Kukoc and Arvydas Sabonis but thanks to the continued injection of European players and the development of basketball in rural neighborhoods like Orange County, the list has grown. So here’s some of the top white guys in the NBA:

Dirk Nowitzki: Follows the prototypical white guy forumula: tall and white. Most white guys prolong their NBA careers by a) being a banger or b) being a great shooter. Dirk’s obviously the latter but he can also take it to the rim with force and can use his size to his advantage, something fellow whitey centers (like Shawn Bradley) could never do. That high arching jumper of his is damn near impossible to stop because you end up touching his elbow or it looks like you’ve touched his elbow and whistle-happy Steve Javie is not going to miss it. No sir he’s not.

Manu Ginobili: Argentine import that looks like you could guard him but blows by you at will and can pull up for deep threes and leave you wondering what the hell to do to guard him? The answer: force him to go right. There are stretches in the game where he’s unstoppable to the point where the coach will use up all his timeouts just to give his defender a breather. Arguably the best foreign player to play in the NBA after Nowtizki, if he figures out how to drive to his right, he’ll be an MVP candidate. But then again, he plays with Tim Duncan so the last time he saw a double-team was in South America.

Steve Nash: Most white guys make up for their lack of talents by height, not Steven Nash, he’s NBA short and still manages to dominate games through meticulous fast-break runs, perfect pick ‘n rolls and a deadly jumper. It’s abnormal how good he’s become over the last five years. Canadians used to roll their eyes at him when local media used to showcase him as one of the few Canuck NBA players (along with Rick Fox) on Sunday afternoon halftime shows. It must be said that the the man is highly erratic at times and a horrible defender. But despite that he managed to win (steal?) 2 MVPs. As cousin Shahid once said, you can’t hand out the MVP award to a player who is below average in 50% of the game.

Andrei Kirilenko: Yes, I know the guy cried after Game 2 but in physical speak, he is one of the most gifted athletes (white or any other color) to play in the NBA. AK47 was reduced to a Super Soaker in the playoffs but still remains a man that can take over any given game with his slashing ability and dominating defensive play. It’s too bad Jerry Sloan isn’t trading the guy to the Raptors; if/when he gets his head sewed on straight, he’ll realize that unleashing that DPOY kind of talent isn’t that difficult. He also needs a barber so that he stops looking like the villain from Die Hard movies. This is not related but his wife lets him cheat on her once a year.

Kirk Hinrich: As you can see the list starts to get pretty thin once we classify it by race, but take nothing away from Hinrich. He’s a good shooter of the ball, very good defensive player (long arms) and is competitive and tenacious. The Kansas product is a fundamentally sound point guard that will never become a superstar but does have what it takes to have a long career while playing at a high level. I think any team would gladly have him on board and he’s one of the main reasons of the Bulls’ resurgence. He’s got Mark Price written all over him.

Mehmet Okur: Damn, I don’t believe its already come down to Okur. Mehmet is starting to look like a real NBA player and not the guy that bags your groceries. It all started to happen for the Turk when he got traded to the confines of Jerry Sloan’s structured offense and out of the thuggish atmosphere that is Motown. The Jazz offense is more structured than a Detroit correctional facility and Okur has found in it his niche as a bruiser and as an outside shooter, the latter when coming out of a set-piece is damn near lethal. If he learns a few more lost-post moves, he might be one of those guys that hinges on the outskirts of the All-Star ballot.

At this point I’m searching for names like Mike Miller, Luke Ridnour, Andres Nocioni, Adam Morrison and Andrew Bogut, who are all decent players but nothing to write an entire paragraph about. I’d say Andrea Bargnani might make it to the top three over the next few years and if those Nowitzki comparisons hold true, might even make it to top spot.

  • http://www.raptorstalk.com Raps Fan

    interesting. what about david lee? dude deserves to be on this list. i would have also put nocioni and hermann (he picked it up nicely when he got minutes). mike miller and luke ridnour are good honourable mentions, bogut will be, not sure about morrison. i think reddick is better than morrison personally. i am curious, is this list ordered from best to worse? because i would take hiinrich and okur over kirilenko anyday. kirilenko might be a freak, but he seems to be a bit weak-mentally.
    i like the new site btw, slick…

  • http://arsenalist.com arsenalist

    Thanks man. Naah, its not meant to be ordered, just random thoughts really. David Lee and Reddick probably deserve a mention but the point is that you start reaching pretty fast once you classify by race..

  • http://www.raptorstalk.com Raps Fan

    yea, there are definitely reaches when you start classifying. with a few exceptions, black folks have dominated basketball.

    i was just talking about this earlier today, basketball (as well as soccer) has the lowest cost of entry of pretty much any sport; when you think about buying equipment, coaching, court time, so on and so forth. if you look at where the best ball players come from, they are predominantly poorer black/minority neighborhood’s (not all, but a very large percentage). it sounds like sweeping generalization, but there has been no evidence to the contrary.

  • Seen

    Argentina is in South America, not Europe… therefore it’d be tough for Manu to be the second-best European behind Dirk.

  • http://arsenalist.com arsenalist

    Sorry, meant to say foreign…

  • israel

    This is complete ignorance. Mehmet Okur is a Turk Muslim, a counrty in the Middle East. He is not white by any means. Manu Ginobili is from Argentina in South America not Europe and he is often labeled as Latino. Admit it, the nba is running out of great white players so you have to label otehr races as white to make it seem that there are still good white players. DAmn!

  • Roger

    Hey Israel,
    Thats true man! Many white people always try to make their statistics bigger by using other races. If you check the almanac, it says that 80% of people in America are white and when I research it, it is only about 65%. Hispanics were counted as whites, which is nonsense! Why are white people always trying to dominate? The NBA are left with no great white players from America. Please just accept the fact rather than exploit, lie, or corrupt other people!

  • trisha

    I’m Chinese and a big fan of Yao Ming. Since he is light skinned are you gonna put him in the list as white since I saw you out a Middle Easterner and South AMerican? Oh dont forget Tim Duncan as well since he seem lighter than most blacks. Damn, huh! White people!

  • Argentinian

    A lot of people in the states usually confuse argentinians with europeans. Argentina is the only latinamerican country where its population comes from european inmigrants ( Mostly italians… didn´t you wonder why they have italians surnames… Ginobili, Nocioni, Oberto, Scola.. or germans like walter herrmann or ruben wolkowisky )unlike the rest of the latin countries where its population has native ancestry or a mixed between spanish and natives or african ( like brazilians ). I don´t know the criteria that you use for statistics ( if it is their race Ginobili is white, if it is the country thy were born ginobili would be latin ). I hope my information help you in your debate!

  • Brent

    Latin Americans are not as racially concious as Americans .Usually people regardless of race are considered latino if they speak spanish or is catholic. for instance, salma hayek, carlos slim helu (wealthiest man in the world living in mexico), and shakira are actually arab racially since their parents are from lebanon yet nobody say they are arab but are considered by many as latinos. see, what matters the most is the process of acculturation which woul indeed make ginobili as latino. I mean would people consider barbossa or sammy sosa black since they are mulattos?nope! they r officially latinos, akin to ginobili.

    by the way, okur is middle easterner not white!

  • whitey

    Hey Arsenalist,

    I would agree that Gonibili would be considered white racially but would categorize him more of Latino than anything. Many Latinos, for instance, in Costa Rica are white, but they would rather consider themselves Costa Rican or Latino. Yes, Ginobili is purely Italian racially, but in Latin America nobody cares, he is still Latino since some Latino have very high percentage of Spanish blood. I think if you ask Ginobili, he would consider himself Latino over being called white. It is very hard to categorize Ginobili as part of this broad spectrum race similar to Nowitzki or Kirilenko. For professional and academic terms, white is usually applied to Americans born in U.S/Canada, or people born in Europe. In Latin AMerica, nobody gives a damn if your parents are from Japan, the Middle East, Europe, or Africa, if you speak Spanish and is acculturated to the culture, you are Latino.

  • white baller

    Argentinean,

    Good point here about Italian ballers in Argentina but I would still consider them Latino because of the process of cultural adaptation. If you ask them, they would rather die for Argentina than Italy. Italy is in the white sphere and Argentina in the Latino sphere. Indeed, the white term become non existent in South America because of the process of cultural acculturation within South American culture that is not only distinct from Europe but have some minor differences with the Iberian Peninsula as well.

  • ashley

    I can’t believe okur is considered white by some people. hahaha please do more readings about racial or cultural diversity.

  • http://none The Champ

    Israel and ashley, you are ignorant douche bags. Being Muslim has nothing whatsoever to do with race/color. Islam is a large religion, and there are people of every single color in it. Also, Turkey is a fairly pale country, and Okur is a prime example. On many stat sheats, people of Arabian decent are still listed as Caucasian (although I think of them as grey rather than white.) Not that it matters because I don’t think Okur is of Arabian decent.

  • Martin

    You are all nuts, specially you white baller .
    First of all:
    1) Argentina looks rather european than latin american. I see u havent ever put a feet in our country.Why do u think Buenos Aires is considered the Paris of Latin America?
    2)Then, according to ur point of view, Herrmann and sammy sosa belong to the same ethnic, right?
    3)argentinians look rather italians or spanish than mexicans.
    4)argentina is in the white sphere, not in the latino sphere.
    5)it seems you dont wanna accept that in latin america you can find white countries,do you?

  • Martin

    I dont know what happened with my last comment.
    Ok, i said:
    1) Argentina is in the white not in the latino sphere
    2)according to white baller, herrman and sammy sosa shall be of the same ethnic … and it is ridiculous
    3)argentinian culture looks rather european than latinamerican … white baller, obviously u havent put a feet in our country… did u know Buenos Aires is considered the PARIS OF LATIN AMERICA?
    4)most of the arg ppl descent from italians and spanish, that’s the reason we speak a spanish with a strong italian accent!
    5) we look physically like europeans rather than mexicans
    6) according to ur point of view, if what really cares is not the race, is the culture, then you consider a libian who lives in italy white? don’t be ridiculous!!!
    7) I think u dont wanna accept there are latin american countries whose pop is white

  • Mehmet Okur

    To to the question of “middle easterners” being white, given that white is equated with caucasian:

    The Caucasian race, sometimes called the Caucasoid race, is defined by the Compact Oxford English Dictionary of Current English as “relating to a broad division of humankind covering peoples from Europe, Western Asia, the Indian subcontinent and parts of North Africa” or “white-skinned; of European origin” or “relating to the region of the Caucasus in SE Europe”

    Now everyone can stop complaining about Okur, as Western Asia and North Africa clearly imply that arabs can indeed be considered caucasian.

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  • Ginobili

    Hey white,

    For academic terms in population studies, Ginabili and Herman are white hispanic or white latinos, still white. It is the correct denomination for research purposes, they are white ratially, and latino culturally. But of course, these things are only important in the USA.

  • From Argentina

    It’s odd how in bascket you have these “white”, “black”, other dream team, like you see in other sports. I agree with the guy who made the list you judge people according to how they look if you are going to consider the race. You may not be 100% accurate but it’d definetely better than using geography of religion (proselitisism and migrations, anyone?). Other wise you could end up concluding that freddy mercury is black (he was born in africa).

    About the guy who said “Buenos Aires is considered the Paris of Latin america” that’s absurd and embarrasing. Of course not, It’s much worse than Paris and we all know it. There’s no reason to make such a ridiculuos statement.

    About ginobili’s race: In argentina he is considered white, just like most argentinian consider themselves white. In our country despite there’s not an official definition of white race or any other race. People tend to judge your race according to your appearance- There’s racism and racial awarness (but less than in developed countries) and a great part of the population is not white but mixed with native americans (thuogh less than in most latin american coutnries where mixed people account the majority of the population)

  • toblerone

    The archetypal typecast in Europe & Latin America are different. In Europe you will never be consider white if u r not one. In Latin America whatever your race is you will be called Latino. Salma Hayek or Shaquire for example are never called Lebanese eventhough they are racially Arab but they are called Latinos. Caucasoid has a different representation than white. white is a colonial term for European imperialists while Caucasoid is a term for a multifaceted population such as Arabs Indians Central Asians Turks Persians and Europeans. So people of Latin America are consider more Latinos. If we call Ginobili white it is a very racial term that represent the illustration of skin color rather than a person’s character and cultural affiliation. Ladies and gentlemen white is not a mere racial belonging it is an affiliation.

  • porsche racer

    The Arabs,Turks or Persians would never called themselves white. Caucasoid is a scientific term while white is a representation of colonial powers who began to erect a racial classification and stratification among whites (only europeans and their blood ties with the Americans,Canadians, Australians, etc. and others which is the remaining world.) Pls guys don’t ever call Turks white. Okur does not look Anglo Saxon to me. Ginobili is a white Latino. End of discussion!

  • http://tapo.com Confi

    I always thought most of the American guys are stupid and this opinions makes my thougt realised. Turkish people whiter than ever most of the European people also Americans. Origin of Turks depend on white Middle Asia (Uzbeks, Cossacks, Tajiks, Turkmens), also in the geography of Anatolia, Turkish race is mixed with Greeks. So Turks have some Greece anciety, too. I you don’t know anything guys, sit down and don’t talk. I am considering you some reading, or you can believe your eyes easily. Mehmet Okur is whiteeeee…..

  • steven

    ¡¡¡The shere amount of ignorance of many people who write comments here is amazing!!!. Latino is not a race you stupid fucking ignorants. As a matter of fact in Latin America, being a land filled with immigrants from all over the world, you con find almost all races. Manu Ginobili is racialy white and there is nothing to discuss about it. Turks are racially white.Islam is a religion not a race.Do not confuse Turkish people with Arabs. Thats a major mistake. Arabs are not white. The fact that a person doesn’t consider himself from a particular race doesnt means he doesn’t belong to that race. One last thing: “race a colonial invention”. For your information the egyptians thousands of years before there was a european colonial power divided the world in races and so did many ancient people. Get informed it won’t hurt you.

  • SHAIDER KEIJI

    WOW! I CANT BELIEVE HOW IT GOT THIS FAR. WE ARE JUST TALKING ABOUT BASKETBALL. PLEASE GUYS, DON’T CURSE HERE, I THINK IT IS UNPROFESSIONAL, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY DON’T CALL PEOPLE IGNORANT BECAUSE IT IS UNFAIR WHEN WE DON’T KNOW EACH OTHER HERE PERSONALLY. ALL OF US MAY HAVE DIFFERENT OPINIONS, SOME MAY BE RIGHT, SOME WRONG, BUT WE HAVE TO RESPECT EACH OTHER.

    RACE IS TOO STRONG TO APPLY IN A GROUP BELONGING BECAUSE MANY COUNTRIES AROUND THE WORLD IS TURNING INTO A MELTING POT SOCIETY. NATIONALITY IS A STRONGER TERM THAN RACE ITSELF. I AM JAPANESE BUT BORN IN U.S. MY GRANDFATHER WAS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN WHO FOUGHT IN THE PACIFIC AS AND WAS KILLED AT THE AGE OF 22 WHILE MY FATHER WAS ONLY 13 MONTHS OLD. DID YOU GUYS KNOW THAT JAPANESE-AMERICANS SERVED BOTH IN EUROPE AND ASIA DURING WWII WITH THE SIDE OF THE AMERICANS?

    IN THE MODERN WORLD, WE VALUE PEOPLE’S NATIONALITY OVER RACE. GINOBILI IS ARGENTINEAN, OKUR IS TURK, YAO IS CHINESE, TONY PARKER IS FRENCH, AND KIRILENKO IS RUSSIAN. I AM CERTAIN ON THIS, THAT THEY WOULD BE PREFER TO BE CALLED THAT, REGARDLESS OF THEIR SKIN COLOR. I AM NOT WHITE, BUT I AM DAMN SURE I AM A DAMN AMERICAN!

  • Ibd Kahrkoum Mohammad

    I was born in Armenia to a Turk father and Armenian mother. I love basketball tremendously and watch the NBA every single day. I now reside in London, which is the greatest place on earth. We Turks do not consider ourselves white by any means. Yes we are caucasoid just like the Indians or Iranians, but here in Europe, we are not considered white and we are not part of the majority Anglo Saxon group. In America, Europe, or any white country, Turks are not considered whites, belonging to the same racial or ethnic groups like the Germans, Anglo Americans, British, French, Spaniards, or Italians. It is funny to me how you guys keep emphasizing that Turks are white. We are not, we are Turks and Turk is a race. Okur and Torkuglu are not white, not the same like Nowitzki or Gasol. Caucasoid and white are two different classifications, do not be confused for those who are uninformed here. That goes to Steven and Confi. Would you call Okur or Torkuglu white if in Europe or U.S, or would you rather call me Middle Easterner or Turk? This is common sense. Take him the hell off the white list created by Arsenalist!

  • Ibd Kahrkoum Mohammad

    I protest for the removal of Mehmet Okur on the white list! He is Turk and that is his race. We do not believe in skin color, white is a term for whites of Europe and America. The Chinese, Mongolians, or Koreans are in the same latitude as Europe and that is why they are also light skinned, by far lighter than us Turks. But why don’t you call them whites instead of yellow. No? Because it has been politicized! What about Bin Laden or Saddam, why not call them white? Arab is of Caucasoid belonging right?. Damn it! Come on! Whites are Europeans and Americans in modern translation. Educated professionals should realize that!! Our Turkish history, race and culture came from the Middle East not Europe. Take Mehmet Okur out of the list now! I am protesting this abdsurd list!

  • John Canor

    There are some provocators here I see. Look, Turks are white and Turkey is an European country, period!!!! Armenians, Kurds, majority of Arabs and Persians are non-white people. Armenians love to be called white but just being christian does not make them white. They look very alike of Persians and Kurds. Majority of Philipino people are christian too. are they white? Turks are muslim in majority but they are not your regular muslim. What I have seen and thought is they are living with christian ethics and calling it Islam. Bosnians are white muslims, Albanians are white muslims and so are Turks and they are all fom europe and undoubtfuly white people. I have seen many blue-green eyed people with fair skin and dark or light hair in Turkey even more in numbers than it is in Romania or Bulgaria and look definately European. I have seen middle-eastern looking ones in Turkey as well and all of them were either Arabs, Kurds or Armenians due to their major immigration from sout east Turkey to western cities of Turkey. People who called theirselves ‘Turks’ in Turkey are decendants of chechen, cherkes, albanian, georgian, yugoslavian, macedonian, bosnian people, not middle-easterners nor middle asians. But this is obvious that non-white people who’d like to be called ‘white’ such as Armenians and Slavs keep a ridicolous propaganda against real-white Turks by asserting they are being asian or middle easterners. Even Italians do not like as white as Turks. Well if you doubt my words, just check the picture of ‘ATATURK’ founder of modern Turkey and you will see what I mean. These are my honest opinions and I respect all races and people.

  • Ibd Kahrkoum Mohammad

    95% of Turkey is located in Asia not Europe. Just because my country’s people have light skin does not make us look like white. The white term is no longer simplified as the basis of skin color, but a group belonging of some sort. I believe that Muslim Albanians or Kosovars are white because they are in Europe. But categorizing my people as white, belonging to the same group as Europeans is unjustified and straight up racial profiling. We do not share the same culture nor the history of Europe compared to what we have obtained from the Middle East. During the Ummayad Dynasty expansion in Turkey, Arabs by the thousands intermixed with Turks and created a new race. Berbers who made their way to Anatolia did the same thing. Indeed, we have more blood lineage of being an Arab than a white European, let say for instance the GErmans or the English, which we have no absolutely connection. It is absolute racial ignorance to classify Turks the same as English as being whites when we have more similarities with our Arab neighbors such as Iraq, Syria, and Iran. We would rather be called Middle Easterners than whites.

  • Ibd Kahrkoum Mohammad

    John COnnor, Turkey is Asia, it’s always been Asia. Only a small part of Turkey, which is Constantinople belongs to Europe. It is less that 5 % of the land area. Turkey is located even more south of Italy and by far more south than any European country. How the hell can we be white like the Swedish and the Norweigians? We may have pale skin, but we are not white Europeans. Our blood lineage is closer to Syria, Iraq, or Iran. Remember Mesopotamia, its stretches all the way here in Turkey from the mouth of Tigris and Euphrates in Iraq. Indeed, we are closer to be Middle Easterners by far, than being let’s say a white German. This is so funny to me and I am certain those who call Turks white, are whites themselevs to extend their cultural, political, and economical influence and interest in the world. After what the whites did to us, you think we want to be one of you guys. To those western exploiters, get the hell out of Turkey!

  • Mahire

    Ottoman Empire at the height of its success extended into Europe, Russia, Arabian peninsula as well as Africa and since Turkic tribes originally came from Central Asia as early as 6th century, and married into people of Anatolia, some of them migrating as far north as Finland and Hungary, Turks can possibly share DNA with all of the above.
    At one point Caucasian mountains were inside Ottoman borders. At present some still form borders of present day Turkey. The term Caucasian is derived from this word.
    I am a blue eyed blonde Turkish woman. While on vacation in Turkey about twenty years ago I met a lady physician who was studying blood samples in Turkey, her conclusion was Turkey was a beautiful mosaic of many origins. I suspect now we have DNA testing her conclusions would be further verified. I also suspect our physical appearance is only one facet of our rich DNA. My skin color is not as white as one of my sisters, another sister is a hazel eyed brunette. Then again at the end of a long summer vacation I turn a deep dark tan. I think Turkish people are beautiful because of their rich heritage of many origins. We also have our own version of what it means to be Moslem. Our rich heritage of Christian, Jewish and Moslem culture makes us well rounded and respectful of many paths to the Creator. Some day we will all discover what we always knew that all religions are at best interpretations of a complex but a beautiful Creative Force. We all see different sparkles of the beautiful diamond of the Creator and each one of us sees it at a uniquely individual angle and we are all made in His/Her image. We need all of the interpretations for the most complete understanding. Skin color is part of the variety and spice of life. Skin color may be more in the eye of the beholder and may have very little to do with DNA.

  • North Cyprus

    “Ibd Kahrkoum Mohammad” clearly isnt Turkish, judging by his comments. No Turk uses “Constantinople” and refers to himself as middleastern or associates with Syria/Arabs. He is probably an armenian/greek (aka slaves of the Turks for century upon century) trying to bash Turks/Turkey.

  • http://nba.com Atilla Arkan

    Mehmet Okur is white, he’s even of Ukrainian and Bosnian origin, as are tens of millions of other Turks. Ginobili is white too, Argentineans are of Italian, Spanish, and German origin. Argentineans aren’t Mexicans, and Turks aren’t Arabs. Hispanic is a linguistic tie, and Islam is a religion.

    Ibd Kahrkoum Mohammad, you’re just another Arab posing as a Turk trying to lure Turks away from the civilized world and toward Sharia by associating us with your Semitic culture. You’re not a Turk and you never will be you curly-haired Bedouin so stop referring to Turks as “my people.” White Turks virtually all do consider themselves white and feel very disrespected to be associated with Arabs and the Middle East.

    Not all Turks are white, but they are majority white – especially among the elite. Their origins range from Slavic, Greek, Albanian, Georgian, Laz, Circassian, and even to a smaller extent French, German, Polish, Italian, and Celtic. If you go to the Black Sea regions, you’ll find the people to be virtually all blonde hair and blue eyed.

    I agree with John Canor, Armenians are the wannabe-whites, as are many Greeks (many of whom would pass as Iranians before passing as Turks). Go to Istanbul, you can always tell who the Armenians are.

  • Ibd Kahrkoum Mohammad

    I just mentioned it in my first statement that I am half Armenian and Turk. I cannot believe how you guys attack me as if I am not a real Turk. I am very offended by this notion, especially calling me an Arab when I am not. History states that the first Turks came from Central Asia who were former Nomads, and the majority ot Turks came from the East not the West. Turkey also stretches for THOUSANDS OF YEARS its influence to the Ur, Uruk, Tigris and Euphrates era, where Iraq and Turkey are both part of the Mespotamia area. That is a fact. Indeed, a longer period of Turkey’s history has been dominated by Asiatic people rather than white Europeans, which to me is really funny. You can research that if you would like too, but true Turks are semitic and not white. that is why even the great Mongol Khan Tamerlane who conquered the Ilkhanate Empire from Kazahkstan, Iran, Iraq, Syria and Anatolia, called himself Turko-Mongol. In the census in Europe such as Britain (my country now) France, German, and Spain, the question boxes of ethnicity or race states white, Middle Easterner, Asian, South Asian, Black African, and Latino. Turks would put their racial belonging as Middle Easterner rather than check the white box. Real Turks are not whites. They may have light skinned but the location of Turkey is in Asia and the original people are from Central ASia, NOT EUROPE. Furthermore, the Turk language has no CONNECTION with the Indo-European language. Turk language has some percentage of Farsi and a huge percentage of the Mongoloid languages of Central Asia including Mongolia. Turkish people have always been considered foreigners in Europe, they were never accepted whites because they are not Europeans. That is why I dont understand, why, and I am certain, most of you guys are white, why you want to make Turks white? If we make a poll if Turks consider themselves white like the Europeans, a huge percentage will say no. LOOK AT HISTORY AND YOU WILL SEE THAT THE ORIGINAL TURKS CAME FROM CENTRAL ASIA NOT EUROPE. CENTRAL ASIANS HAVE VERY LIGHT SKINNED, BUT THEY ARE NOT WHITE EUROPEANS.

  • Ibd Kahrkoum Mohammad

    To North Cyprus, I used Constantinople because it is the city that you bunch of white guys here are more aware of. I am offended that you deny me my own racial belonging. Furthermore, your analysis has no basis of facts and you have no evidence to back any materials that states Turks are white. Let me ask you this, where did the evry first Turks came from? Europe? haha.. Also the history of Turkey, do they have more connections with Mesopotamia or White Europe? Another question, would Turks consider themselves white or Turk of Asiatic descent? Moreover, would the Europeans call Turks white in Germany, England, or France? I don’t think so! They are not white. It is you white guys who make things up here. It is obvious since this topic is white guys in the NBA and most of the people here are indeed white so you guys gang me up with!

  • Ging Fu Sheng

    I am a university professor here in Texas and I teach History, Archaeology, and some Theology. I have a PhD in these fields and have also conducted research documents to institute higher public awareness for racial issues and diversity here in America. I am a huge fan of the NBA.

    I think this topic and site itself is just dominated by white people, because i found this site from google search button where i put who is the best white player in the nba and this simply came out. Nonethless, I think most of the people searching for who is the best white players in the NBA are white themselves. I am not surprise to see Mehmet Okur on the list, because knowing white people, anybody that is good or great, they will try to make it their own.

    Just look at what the whites portrayed Jesus Christ as white, with blue eyes, when historical and archaelogical evidence, proven by British author Richard Neave that Jesus Christ is indeed Arab or semitic in appearance and have no blood lineage whatsoever with the Europeans. I know in scietific and even archaelogical findings do not suggest that Turks are whites or are Europeans by origin. The geographical positition of Turkey situates in Asia and it is impossible to have people who are blond or blue eyes, as exponentially exagerrated or perhaps lied by some of you here.

    Yes, there are many Turks who look white, and perhaps may even have blond hair or blue eyes, but they have perhaps blood lineage from Europe and represent a very small percentage of the Turk population. If we look at historical, scietific, archaeological, geographical, or any technical research backed with academic proofs rather than opinion, Turks are not white. They are not Arabs nor Persians, but they are not white European either. If their race is measured, they are closer to Central Asian, which Hedo Torkuglu and Mehmet Okur look like, more than let say a white European like Dirk Nowitzki.

    If you want to debate about the issue on whether Turks are white or not, please give me evidence backed by academic resources rather than opinion. I guarantee you I will throw facts and I am certain scholars and the majority of Turks will support my notion that they may be of Caucasoid stock, muh like the Pakistanis, Indians, Punjabs, Arabs, or North Africans, they are not white nor European.

  • Ging Fu Sheng

    Ibd Kharkoum Muhammad, I don’t mean to repeat the things you have already said, but you really gave some valid points here and I just wanted to assert that your information were accurate, unlike some people here. I am assured that you are an educated individual and I admire your courage to protest in Okur’s removal.

    However, I must state that your analysis is a bit of an exagerration, because we are not aware of Okur’s true background, but regardless, you hit the point that Turks predominantly do not consider themselves white nor archaeologists, historians, or even social theorists would consider them whites or Europeans. The only claim Turks are white would come from white people themselves or people who pretend that they are Turks.

  • Ging Fu Sheng

    Mahire, although I respect you are a person, I judge your analysis as illegitimate and lacking technical science or scientific accuracy. You have inputted a narration that describes yourself yet you have not issued any provisions of academic or scietific hypotheses. I am not convince at your position, and I do not believe you are Turk yourself. A blond Turk is something that is very rare, blue eyes is even rarer. Not to say this does not exist in Turkey, but this is not a spectrum representation of the general population. Turks are Central Asians by blood, and the European impact when it became part of the Byzantine Empire is extremely short compared to the Ottoman era of cultural rejuvenation and its separation from Europe. The Turks would never call themselves white nor champion the idea that they are descendants of Europeans. Yes, there were Mynaceans, Phoenicians, Greeks, or Balkan people settling in Turkey, but they remain a small minority of the Turkish population. If you look at all academic data bases from EBSCO to any university library sites in US universities, typed in the search button of Turkish race, not one site will call them whites. The claim will always be, they are Asians from Asia Minor with the predominant population having a blood lineage from Central Asia, and some level of hereditary connection with the previous Mesopotamia region that has controlled a vast part of the Middle East. The basis of Turks being whites is an insufficient claim, it is biased, prejudice, and evidentially an exponential exagerration, much like the claim of Jesus being white when he is an Arab.

  • THE HISTORIAN

    YOU GUYS ARE WRONG FOR CLAIMING THAT TURKS ARE WHITE LIKE THE EUROPEANS. THE LIST OF WHITE GUYS HERE ARE SUBJECTIVE, BECAUSE MEHMET OKUR DOES NOT FIT PROPERLY, IF SCIENTIFIC REASONING IS APPLIED.

    THIS IS COPY AND PASTE FROM WIKIPEDIA

    1. It is generally believed that the first Turkic people were native to a region extending from Central Asia to Siberia. Some scholars contend that the Huns were one of the earlier Turkic tribes, while others support Mongolic origin for the Huns.[32]

    2. The Turkic language family is traditionally considered to be part of the proposed Altaic language family.[43][44] [8] The Altaic language family includes 66 languages[45] spoken by about 348 million people, mostly in and around Central Asia and northeast Asia.[43][46][47]

    3. Presently, the largest groups of Turkic people live throughout Central Asia—Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, and Azerbaijan, in addition to Turkey.

    THIS IS MY PERSONAL STATEMENT

    THIS ALONE STATES THAT THE TURKS ARE NOT EUROPEAN BUT ARE ASIANS OF MONGOL/CENTRAL ASIAN AND TURK DESCENT. THE FALL OF THE BYZANNTINE EMPIRE MARKED THE OTTOMAN (TURK) INVASION OF ASIA MINOR AND CONQUER OF NORTH AFRICA, THE HOLY LAND, AND SOUTHEAST EUROPE. REMEMBER THAT IT WAS SULTAN SALADIN WHO OUSTED THE CRUSADERS AWAY FROM THE HOLY LAND. THE CRUSADER MOORISH WAR WAS NOT ONLY A WAR FOR RELIGION BUT A RACIAL WAR BETWEEN THE OTTOMANS IN TURKEY AND THEIR ARAB AFFILIATES AGAINST THE PREDOMINANT WHITE CRUSADERS WHO WERE DEEMED AS A DIFFERENT RACE. IT IS MORE OFTEN COMMON TO SEE PEOPLE OF TURK DESCENT IN SOUTHEAST EUROPE THAN SOUTHEAST EUROPEANS IN TURKEY DUE TO THE FACT THAT IT WAS THE TURKS WHO CONQUER SOUTHEAST EUROPE NOT THE OTHER WAY ALONE. INDEED, THE CLAIM THAT TURKS ARE WHITE IS BEYOND DOUBT NOT ONLY LACK JUDGMENT BUT ALSO IS EUROCENTRIC BIAS, PREJUDICE TO CULTURAL AND RACIAL DIFFERENCES, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, INACCURATE AT ALL LEVELS OF SCIENTIFIC METHDOLOGY.

  • TURAN

    TO IBN Kharkoum Muhammed

    First of all you are not a turk that is for sure. The turks do not use arab names even when they are very religious. In generally turks detest arabs as they detest armenians. An arab tourist is not welcome to Turkey unless he is from one of the rich gulf states and stays unseen in one of the five star hotels.We use the word arab also for negro. If we say for someone who has a dark complexion we say he looks like an arab. Even I do not approve my nations behaviour I can say easily that almost every turk hates arabs. When you ask a religios turkish moslem why he is moslem then, he says ‘ Mohamed said I am from the arabs but the arabs are not from me ‘. WHAT YOU SAY THAT TURKISH PEOPLE ARE SEMITIC IS TOTALLY NOT ACCORING TO THE SCIENCE. I HEARD THIS FIRST TIME IN MY LIFE. YES ARABS AND JEWS ARE SEMITIC AND FROM THE SAME RACE. REAL ORIGINAL TURKS ARE FROM THE CENTRAL ASIAN TERRITORY AND THEY ARE FROM A WHITE MASTER RACE WHO ARE CALLED TURANIC. HOWEVER THE TURKISH PEOPLE IN TURKEY, ONLY 10 % OF THEM ARE FROM CENTRAL ASIA. MAJORITY OF THEM ARE BYZANTINE WHO WERE ISLAMIZED BY THE TURKISH TRIBES IN 12.TH CENTURY. THE TURKISH TRIBES WERE ISLAMIZED BY FORCE BY THE CRUEL ARABS IN 7. AND 8. CENTURIES. THERE ARE SOME ARABS IN OUR COUNTRY WHO LIVE IN SOUTHEASTERN TURKEY WHOM WE CALL FELLAHS. AND THEY SPEAK ARABIC. THEY HAVE LIKE ARMENIANS AND KURDS DARK MEDITERRANEAN COMPLEXION. EVEN SOME ARMENIANS AND ESPECIALLY SOME KURDS CAN HAVE ALSO BLOND HAIR AND BLUE EYES.

    TURKISH PEOPLE ARE WHITE PEOPLE. AND IF YOU ASK THEM THEY WILL TELL YOU THAT THEY ARE WHITE AS VERY NORMAL. EVEN IN THE HOSPITALS WHEN WE HAVE TESTS THEY WRITE WHITE FOR RACE.( FOR INSTANCE FOR OSTEROPOROSIS)

  • TURAN

    ALSO IN USA AND IN FORMER SOUTH AFRICAN REPUBLIC TURKS WERE CONSIDERED AS WHITES WHICH THEY WERE.
    YOU ARE WHAT YOU ARE. ONE CANNOT BE YELLOW, BROWN OR BLACK IF HE IS WHITE. MEHMET OKUR IS A PURE WHITE MAN AND ALSO HIDAYET TURKOGLU. EVEN THEY ARE FINEST GENDERS REPRESENTING THE WHITE RACE.

    THERE WERE TIMES IN USA GERMANS WERE CONSIDERED AS NON WHITES ( SEE WIKIPEDIA ALSO BENJAMIN FRANKLIN )

    ITALIANS , GREEKS WERE NOT CONSIDERED AS WHITES FOR MANY DECADES IN USA.

    THERE ARE NO DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TURKS AND GREEKS. EVEN I CAN TELL THAT WE HAVE MORE BLONDS WITH BLUE EYES IN TURKEY.

    MIDDLE EAST, ISLAM IS A THREAT FOR OUR BEAUTIFUL COUNTRY AND OUR CULTURE. EVEN THERE WERE TIMES WHEN MIDDLE EASTERN WERE AHEAD OF ALL OTHER RACES IN THE WORLD BUT WITH THE STRICTNESS OF JEWISH RELIGION AND LATER ISLAM THE CULTURE HAS VANISHED.

    THERE IS NO ANY ARAB COUNTRY WHICH I COULD SAY THEIR PEOPLE ARE DECENT. EGYPT, SAUDI ARABIA (HORRIBLE ),IRAQ, EVEN THE GULF STATES.

    I AM VERY HAPPY I AM BORN IN TURKEY ONE OF THE MOST BEAUTIFUL COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD WITH THE NICEST BEST PEOPLE OF THE WORLD.

    I HOPE ONLY THERE IS NO REINCARNATION !!!!

  • porsche racer

    turan u are a white guy who pretends to be a turk. turks are now white and real turks will never call themselves the same race as european. furthermore turks detest whites much more than arabs since they have a tremedence cultural historical and racial hereditary from mesopotamia of arab middle east. your statements are absolutel absured and your weak comparisons to the us diversity lack any analysis of scientific exemplary. use wikipedia or even use any scholastic materials to analyze the history of the turks and u will come up with the fact that turks are not white. the analysis of both ging fu sheng and kharkoum are more believable than your prejudice eurocentric predepositions are by far more scientifically and academically defined. I can tell u r just a poser and a white liar uneducated and prejudicekike yourself have no space on the civilized world. would u call jesus white like yourself turan? u r nothing but a white sympathizer because u r white yourself that your statements lacks any educated surmises professional retorts or any technical evidence to back your false and ignorant claims.

  • Rexy

    JESUS IS not white much like okur and turkuglu aren’t . Will u white people stop obsessing with your diminishing race. Are u guys jealous that the top 4 highest paid ethnic groups according ot the table 8 of the US census are non whites but are asian indians filipinos japanese chinese jews koreans and vietnamese while whites or WASP like yourselves are in the button. are u guys scared that china and japan are the second and third respectively on world’s largest economy whiele India has just surpassed England and is predicted to surpass germany by 2009. or is it by the fact that an average person from hong kong or kuwait have higher incomes than any europeans except luxembourg and liechtensein. or is it maybe for the fact the nba has no more great white american players so u make the term white broader which include turks? please white people here stop your eurocentric and ethnocentric barbarian values.

  • lame duck

    Ibd Muhammad Khahrkoum much like Mahire or Turam are posers. I think Kharkoum is Arab while both Mahire and Turam are White. Although I respect everyone’s input on this interesting debate I am an educated man not a poser so I would give the nod here to Ging Fu Sheng’s academic presentation because I feel he provided evidence and scietific verity rather than a partisan opinion like most white guys here. I have strong passion myself for academics and I have never heard of anything more absurd in calling Turks whites when in political or social and even scientific terms it is well proven that they are Asians. Indeed the claim of some of you white bigots that Turks are white is usincredibly erroneous and sadly pitiful.

  • Andiamo

    racial sensitivity is for bitches.

  • http://khandorssportsblog.wordpress.com/ khandor

    Back up to the beginning of this thread.

    The first problem is with the inappropriate use of the term “white” in a way that has little relevance in the modern world.

    See the on-line dictionary definition for the word “white” …

    http://www.thefreedictionary.com/white

    which pertains to a specific “achromatic colour” rather than a specific genetic/ethnic/geographical based group.

    Usage #4. is a “colloquial” (generalist & informal) term that is non-restrictive to a specific geographical region of the earth … despite what some/many would have you believe … i.e. ‘especially’ does not mean the same thing as ‘only’.

    The fact is … the word “white” is mis-placed in any legitimate discourse which deals with a specific genetic sub-group within the human population (i.e. race) or a specific geographical region of the earth (i.e. land/territory/place/country/nation/etc.).

    The simple fact is … there is no such thing as a “white” race of people, on this earth … nor a “black”, “yellow”, “red”, etc., one.

    Every person, on this earth, is an equal and exclusive member of THE single Human Race … that’s all.

    Full stop.

    Every person, in this world, has a ‘skin complexion’ that is best categorized perhaps as being some shade, tint, hue or pigment (etc.) of the colour “brown” … ranging from the very lightest to the very darkest of tones imaginable.

    Who are the best ___________ (insert the country of choice) players in the NBA?

    Who are the best ___________ (insert the geographical region of choice) players in the NBA?

    Who are the best ___________ (insert the religious group of choice) players in the NBA?

    Who are the best ___________ (insert the sexual orientation of choice) players in the NBA?

    Who are the best ___________ (insert the dominant hand of choice) players in the NBA?

    Who are the best ___________ (insert the height range of choice) players in the NBA?

    Who are the best ___________ (insert the language of choice) players in the NBA?

    … by all means

    … but, please, do NOT put a “word” in that blank space which pertains to a “colour” … or a human “sub-racial” group that is strictly “undefinable” in the modern (i.e. trans-migratory) world.

    It simply doesn’t work … and is a waste of resources (i.e. time, thought & energy).

  • Atilla Arkan

    Uh, I can understand someone believing Turks resemble Arabs, but how the hell did you come up with Asian? It’s very uncommon to see a Turk in Turkey who is Asian. White doesn’t mean looking exclusively western European. Turks are much closer in genealogy to Greeks and Armenians than to their ancestors in Central Asia so how can we be Asian? I don’t understand how anyone could think blond hair is uncommon in Turkey (unless of course you’ve never been to the country, then I’d understand), it’s probably between 5 to 10 percent of the population. They’re not Turkic, most people in Turkey aren’t. Blue eyes are not as common as Turks of Slavic origin tend to have brown eyes, but many still do exist. Most Turks probably do have relatives with blond hair and/or blue eyes, I have ones with red hair and we’re from eastern Turkey. If you can’t even acknowledge that Mehmet Okur is white, then you’re duping yourself. How can people call Vlade Divac (who looks like Osama bin Laden) and all these other Serbian and Romanian people white and not Mehmet Okur just because he’s from Turkey? The guy is even of Ukrainian and Bosnian origin, look at his fan page. Is it because he only has one eye-brow? Because that’s not exactly exclusive to Turks, you know.

    A minority of Turks would stand out in Greece or another Balkan country. To a lesser extent, Italy and Spain, and there is a minority which wouldn’t stand out in Nordic nations. I don’t think I’ve ever met anyone who has thought of me as a foreigner here in the US until I’ve given my name or country of origin.

    All you have to do is simply look up the genealogy or the photos of people in Turkey, plain and simple and you’ll find that most Turks are not just Caucasoid, but Caucasian or mostly Caucasian. I’m not talking about the Turkic people who Turks in Turkey no longer bear a resemblance to, I’m talking about the people in Turkey today. They’re white, they consider themselves white, and they’re proud to be white. If you haven’t been to the country, then you’re likely basing your assumptions on national or religious prejudice.

    I don’t care about the racial sensitivities of Arabs and Asians, I’m not trying to offend anyone. I’m proud to be white, and I’m proud of white Turks. We wouldn’t be as attractive as we are if we weren’t white.

    Also, part of the reason Turks are often perceived as non-whites is because of the higher proportion of dark-haired people. Most Turks do have dark hair. But again, even most of those people wouldn’t be spotted out in Greece, Bosnia, or another nearby country. But I’m also sure that there is a higher proportion of blondes in Turkey than in Greece, and I’m not talking about those curly-haired Middle-Eastern Arab blondes in Jordan or Lebanon.

    I’m not saying these white Turks are the same people as the original ancient Turks, they’re not. Just as how today’s Hungarians are not the same as the ancient Hungarians they claim ancestry to. Pure Turks are pretty much extinct in Turkey, Turks are some of the most inter-bred people on the planet. There have been influxes of people from Greece, Bosnia, and eastern Europe for centuries, this is where the white part comes in. These are the new Turks who have dominated the genes of Turkey, and they’re as much Turk as anyone else. Most Turks are not pure European, and neither are Greeks, Serbs, Bulgarians, Albanians, Bosnians, or others in the region, but all these people are mostly European.

  • lame duck

    Atilla Arkan I hate to offend you in any way but you are obviously an imitator lacking any grasp of social and theoretical understanding of human genealogy or history. The term Asian is a comprehensive representation of people residing in the Asian continent where Turkey situates. Indeed Turks are Asians just like the Arabs or Persians. Your misunderstanding alone has led me to believe you are a faker probably if white European or American stock. I am in no surprise to see the utmost racial prejudice and biasness created by some of you white folks here which make claims without any academic legitimacy. If you search the meaning Turk in the dictionary or wikipedia I 100 percent guarantee it wil state that Turks came from Central Asia and have blood lineage with the inhabitants there. All information from CIA to encylopedia to world almanac suggest that 90 percent of Turkey’s population are Turks. Indeed we must first analyxed where did the Turks came from or what language do the speak or religion or culture of practice. Once we seach for the defintion of Turk we will then achieve a political or social or even biological finding that Turks are not of European stock. It is legitimate to say that THEY ARE ASIANS. So Attila please shut your ignorant white mouth.

  • NoKNA

    The Turkic peoples are a collection of peoples residing in northern, central and western Eurasia who speak languages belonging to the Turkic language family. The term Turkic represents a broad ethno-linguistic group of people and includes existing societies such as the Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Kyrgyz, Uyghur, Azerbaijani, Turkmen, and Turkish peoples, as well as historical societies such as the Bulgars, Huns, Seljuqs, Khazars, Ottomans and Timurids.[5][6]

    Many of the Turkic peoples have their homelands in Central Asia, where the Turkic peoples originated from, but since then Turkic languages have spread, through migrations and conquests, to other locations including present-day Turkey. While the term Turk may refer to a member of any Turkic people, the term Turkish usually refers specifically to the people and language of Turkey.(WIKIPEDIA)

    It is generally believed that the first Turkic people were native to a region extending from Central Asia to Siberia. Some scholars contend that the Huns were one of the earlier Turkic tribes, while others support Mongolic origin for the Huns.[32] Otto Maenchen-Helfen’s linguistic studies also support a Turkic origin for the Huns. [33][34] The main migration of Turks, who were among the ancient inhabitants of Turkestan, occurred in medieval times, when they spread across most of Asia and into Europe and the Middle East.[35] (WIKIPEDIA)

    Turks term applied in its wider meaning to the Turkic-speaking peoples of Turkey, Russia, Central Asia, Xinjiang in China (Chinese Turkistan), Azerbaijan and the Caucasus, Iran, and Afghanistan. They total about 125 million, and they are distributed from E Siberia to the Balkans. The wide differences in physical appearance and culture among the Uigurs of China, the Uzbeks of central Asia, and the Osmanlis of Turkey (to cite random instances) make it impossible to speak of Turks as an ethnic or racial group. Although Islam is the religion of the majority of Turks, its importance came relatively late. The most significant unifying link among the Turks is the very close relation of their languages, which are marked by great regularity of pattern and clarity of structure. It is probable that many peoples who were unrelated to the original Turks adopted either wholly or in part their speech and their social organization. The Avars were probably Turkic; they and the Magyars certainly had adopted the Turkic tribal organization when they appeared in Europe, and many Magyar words are of Turkic origin.

    Early Migrations and Empires

    The name Turk was first used by the Chinese in the 6th cent. to designate a nomadic people who had established a large empire stretching from Mongolia to the Black Sea. This empire, which was divided into two independent parts, was forced to accept Chinese sovereignty in the 7th cent. The northern empire regained its independence in 682, and the oldest known Turkic inscriptions (see under Orkhon ) are related to it. In succeeding centuries control of the area passed from the Oghuz Turks to the Uigurs and to the Kyrgyz, who were the last Turkic peoples to reside in Mongolia. They, like their predecessors, migrated to the south and west after they were expelled (924) by the Kitai. Other Turkic peoples, notably the Khazars , Cumans , and Pechenegs , played important roles in the medieval history of S Russia and SE Europe. The Turkish groups of the greatest import in the history of Europe and W Asia were, however, the Seljuks and the Osmanli or Ottoman Turks, both members of the Oghuz confederations. The Arab annexation of the area of ancient Sogdiana in the 7th cent. brought the Oghuz Turks into direct contact with the Abbasid caliphate and later with the Persian Empire. The Turks embraced the Sunni Muslim faith and began to migrate to the Middle East. At first they were used as mercenaries by the Abbasids, but soon the Turks became the actual rulers of the empire. (ENCYLOPEDIA)

    I AM A WHITE AMERICAN BUT I DO NOT CLAIM THAT TURKS ARE WHITE BECAUSE BY FACTS AND ALL ACADEMIC RESOURCES SUGGEST THEY ARE PEOPLE WHO CAME FROM THE EAST, LIKE THE HUNS. TURKS ARE ASIANS AND YOU CAN CHECK ANY WEB SEARCH ENGINES OR BOOKS FOR THAT MATTER. IF YOU WANT TO PROVE TURKS ARE WHITE, PLEASE PROVIDE A DAMN SOURCE THAN YOUR DaMN PERSONAL OPINION. PLEASE SHUT THE HELL UP FOR FOLKS HERE WHO KEEP CLAIMING TURKS ARE WHITE!!!! SCIENTIFICALLY SPEAKING, THEY ARE NOT, AND THAT IS ALREADY ACCEPTED AT ALL ACADEMIC LEVELS THAT TURKS CAME FROM THE DAMN EAST NOT EUROPE! IF YOU READ THE POST OF KNOWLEDGEABLE INDIVIDUALS HERE SUCH AS GIN FU SHENG, LAME DUCK, KHANDOR, REXY, AND THE HISTORIAN, YOU CAN SEE THAT THEY BACK THEIR ARGUMENT WITH FACTS USING ACADEMIC RESOURCES, WHILE PEOPLE LIKE ATTILA ARKAN, TURAN, JOHN CANOR, AND OTHERS KEEP STATING THEIR OPINION WITHOUT ANY LEVEL OF EVIDENCES OR ACADEMICALLY BASED SOURCES. THAT JUST MAKES YOU THREE GREAT PRETENDERS, LIARS, RACIST, SELF DENIAL, AND PREJUDICE.

  • fitch

    WHere is Turkey? ASIA MINOR

    Who are the Turks? People who came from Central Asia and invaded Anatolia which was part of the Byzantinne empire. Within decades, the Turks became the majority race in Turkey.

    What are the Turks’s religion? Islam, which was adopted from the expansion of the Umayyads from Syria.

    What language do Turkish belong to? It belongs to the Turko-Mongoloid language, which is not even close to the Indo-Aryan language of Europe and India.

    So are the Turks Arabs or Whites? NEither. The original Turks, which now represent more than 90 % of the population are descendants of people from Central Asia, such as Tajikistan, Kazahkstan, Mongolia, and Uzbekistan. They share the same race, language, and nomad culture of the past.

    WHy is it consider by some people that Turks are white? Because they have light skin, same as their brothers from Central Asia, whom the Arab thought as different, and therefore called them “Mamluks’ or light skinned slaves. Furthermore, Turkey was part of the Byzantinne Empire, which Constaninopole was the capital and situated in Europe. However, the people of Turkey during that era where not Turks. The Turks from CENTRAL ASIA came in and fought the Byzantinne Europeans, and defeated them convincingly and became the dominant population that they are today.

    SO Are the Turks white? No they are not. Geographically speaking, Turkey is in ASIA. Culturally speaking, Turks speak a Central Asian dialect and practices a religion that they borrowed from Middle East, which is called the NEar East of Asia. Racially speaking, archeologists consider Turks as Central Asian because of their historical migration and domination of ANatolia after the fall of the Byzantinne Empire.

    So who are the Turks? The Turks are 90% Asiatic race, while the rest are people who were former residents of the Byzantinne Empire with mixtures of European and Asian stock. However, the majority of Turkey consider themselves Turks, and by academic definition, Turks are scietifically consider Asiatic like their former ancestors.

    Who are the Asians? People of oriental stock, Arab, Persians, Middle Easterners, Indians, Pakistanis, TURKS, Mongols, Kazahks, Huns, Magyars (even of Hungarian descent), and any other people who lives in the ASIAN CONTINENT.

  • http://khandorssportsblog.wordpress.com/ khandor

    There are no “white” people in this world.

    White is a colour.

    White is not a people.

    There are European people.
    There are Asian people.
    There are African people.
    There are North American people.
    There are South American people.
    There are Australian people.

    (and combinations of each of those)

    Why is this?

    Because these are geographical regions on this earth.

    White is not a geographical region.
    White is not a language.
    White is not a religion.
    White is not a monetary system.

    White is a colour.

    There are no White people in this world … just as there are no Black peeople in this world either, nor any Yellow people, Red people, or any other colour of people you might care to name … except, of course, shades/tints/hues of BROWN … which WE ALL ARE.

    A discussion about which people are White and which people are not White is a waste of resources (i.e. time & energy) … nothing more and nothing less.

    You can talk until you are Blue in the face … but it will do no good … because what you are talking about is nonsensical and is never ever going to convince someone else who thinks otherwise, right now, that you are right.

  • Raptors will Rise

    Khandor, Fitch, Nokna, Lame Duck, Ging Fu Sheng, and other, all made valid points. I am a white Canadian and have met mant Turk people here in Toronto. Most of them do not consider themselves as white, and I have notice that their apperances do not look European either. The Greeks and even people from Southeast Europe are different in racial features, and this is recognizable by the Greeks, Europeans, and Turks, that they are different, therefore, they don’t even get along because of the tremendous cultural and ethnical differences. Khandor made a point that white is not a person, it is a color. Rexy said that it is ethnocentrical and racist to call Turks whites, and I do agree as well. Nevertheless, we need to stop this racism, stereotype, and racial profiling of people who are significantly different. The claim of Okur being white like Gasol, Nowitzki, or Kirilenko is very racist because to me, Turks have longed crusaded in the elimination of whites, like the Armenians and Russians in their territories. In WWI alone, the Turks went on an all out killing spree of ethnic European whites, such as the Albanians, Russians, Greeks, and Armenians, because the Turks felt that their race is higher than the White Europeans. So, calling Okur or Turkuglu white, is tremendously ignorant and also is racial profiling.

    Arsenalist should have made this question, just like what Khandor said,

    Who are the Best European Players?

    1. Dirk Nowitzki GERMANY
    2. Pau Gasol SPAIN
    3. Tony Parker FRANCE
    4. Peja Stojakovic SERBIA
    5. Andrei Kirilenko RUSSIA
    6. Zdyrunas Ilgauskas LITHUANIA
    7. Jose Calderon SPAIN
    8. Boris Diaw FRANCE
    9. Andrew Bogut AUSTRALIA
    10. Andris Biedrins LATVIA

    Who are the best Asian players (Middle East & Far East) in the NBA?

    1. Yao Ming CHINA
    2. Hidayet Turkuglu TURKEY
    3. Mehmet Okur TURKEY
    4. Yi Jianlian CHINA
    5. Ha Seung Jin KOREA
    6. Ersan Ilyasova TURKEY

    FORMER ASIAN PLAYERS: YUTA TABUSE-JAPAN, WHANG ZHI ZHI-CHINA, SUN YEO-CHINA, ALA ABDELNABY-EGYPT, MANGKE BATEER-CHINA

    Who are the best South/Latin/Carribean American players in the NBA?

    1. Tim Duncan VIRGIN ISLANDS
    2. Manu Ginobili ARGENTINA
    3. Leandro Barbossa BRAZIL
    4. Andres Nocioni ARGENTINA
    5. Raja Bell VIRGIN ISLANDS
    6. Nene Hilario BRAZIL
    7. Charlie Villanueva VENEZUELA
    8. Al Horford DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
    9. Luis Scola ARGENTINA
    10. Fabricio Oberto ARGENTINA

    BEST INTERNATIONAL PLAYERS TODAY PERIOD!

    1. TIM DUNCAN VIRGIN ISLANDS
    2. STEVE NASH CANADA
    3. DIRK NOWITZKI GERMANY
    4. MANU GINOBILI ARGENTINA
    5. YAO MING CHINA
    6. TONY PARKER FRANCE
    7. PAU GASOL SPAIN
    8. LUOL DENG SUDAN
    9. HIDAYET TURKUGLU TURKEY
    10. ANDREI KIRILENKO RUSSIA

    BEST NBA PLAYERS REGARDLESS OF NATIONALITY (LAST 10 YEARS, 5 MINIMUM)

    1. TIM DUNCAN
    2. SHAQUILLE O’ NEAL
    3. KOBE BRYANT
    4. KEVIN GARNETT
    5. STEVE NASH
    6. DIRK NOWITZKI
    7. DWAYNE WADE
    8. LEBRON JAMES
    9. JASON KIDD
    10. AMARE STOUDAMIRE

    I PUT BOGUT IN THE TOP EUROPEAN PLAYERS, JUST FOR THE FACT THAT HE IS ACTUALLY SERBIAN WITH BOTH HIS PARENTS BEING IMMIGRANTS FROM FORMER YUGOSLAVIA, THE SAME COUNTRY WHERE STOJAKOVIC AND DIVAC CAME FROM. BOGUT, HOWEVER, WAS RAISED IN AUSTRALIA, WHICH IS BY THE WAY NOT IN EUROPE.

    Ala Abdenalby, despite of the fact that he is Egyptian, which is in North Africa, he is racially Arab, so I put him as an Asian player.

  • http://khandorssportsblog.wordpress.com/ khandor

    Raptors will Rise,

    My sincere thanks to you.

  • lame duck

    Best “Caucasian” Players in the NBA

    1. Dirk Nowitzki
    2. Steve Nash
    3. Manu Ginobili (controversial since his from Argentina but has Italian roots)
    4. Jason Kidd
    5. Pau Gasol
    6. Brad Miller/Andrei Kirilenko
    7. Jose Calderon
    8. Peja Stojakovic
    9. Kirk Hinrich
    10. Chris Kaman

  • Salih

    From June 27, 2007 till March 26, 2008, it appears that a lot of people displayed their biases and their lack of knowledge, on many subjects. I am a naturalized US citizen, originally from Turkey, and do not ever remember thinking if I am white or not. It is an un-needed concept-except for the census bureau!! Then, again, one has to consider the actual meaning of the words we use. That is the ultimate education goal. It is nice to be proud of your heritage, history, and culture, but you really have to use that information wisely. It is not out there to promote race, creed, religion or superiority of one person/nation/religion over the other. It is nice that finally “Khandor” brought some much needed light into the original question. Responses following that by “raptors will rise”, and “Lame duck” appears to have the whole thing moving in a more positive direction. Where-ever you are from, all of you, please keep in mind that all the stupid wars in history have started because of ignorant comments which seems to take root in groups that do not know the meaning of some words- race,religion,nation,etnicity,seems to top that list.

    Peace

  • Pentax

    I agree with Salih, that it doesn’t even come to the minds of Turkish people on whether considering themselves whites or Middle Easterners. It is most be a western colonial mentality in differentiating people of different skin color. Turk people do not consider themselves white because they may see that their ethnic looks, culture, religion, and linguistic dialect is by far much more different with westerners than the traditional culture od the Middle East and Central Asia. I agree that this debate is finally going into a positive direction. I think Lame Duck, The Historian, Nokna, Ging Fu Sheng, Khandor, and Raptors will rise, shared some intelligence here in providing sources rather than corrupt people with lies and subjectivity of personal opinion. I would ask for Atilla Arkan, who seems to act as a Turk, but sounds more like a white supremacist, to stop lying about being a Turk and stop spreading false details about the Turkish people, who never even think of categorizing themselves white.

    This is my list of the best Caucasian players in the NBA, much like Lame Duck’s listings, but have some minor differences:
    (This is the most achieve players in their careers, not just this year)

    1. Steve Nash (2 time MVP, NBA All Star)
    2. Dirk Nowitzki (1 time MVP,NBA All Star)
    3. Jason Kidd (2nd in MVP voting behind Duncan in 2003, NBA All Star)
    4. Manu Ginobili(Gold medalist, 3 time NBA champion, NBA All Star)
    5. Peja Stojakovic (2 time 3 point champion, NBA All Star)
    6. Andrei Kirilenko (shot block leader once, NBA All Star)
    7. Pau Gasol (NBA All Star)
    8. Brad Miller (NBA All Star)
    9. Kirk Hinrich (All NBA first team defense)
    10. Zdydrunas Ilgauskas (NBA All Star)

  • Compass

    BEST INT’L PLAYERS

    COUNTRY STATUS SKILL LEVEL

    1. TIM DUNCAN VIRGIN ISLANDS SUPERSTAR 10
    2. STEVE NASH CANADA SUPERSTAR 10
    3. DIRK NOWITZKI GERMANY SUPERSTAR 10
    4. MANU GINOBILI ARGENTINA ALL STAR 9.2
    5. YAO MING CHINA ALL STAR 9.1
    6. PAU GASOL SPAIN ALL STAR 9.0
    7. TONY PARKER FRANCE ALL STAR 8.8
    8. ANDREI KIRILENKO RUSSIA ALL STAR 8.7
    9. HIDAYET TURKUGLU TURKEY ALL STAR 8.6
    10. LUOL DENG SUDAN STARTER 8.5

    BEST CAUCASIAN NBA PLAYERS OF ALL TIME

    1. LARRY BIRD
    2. JERRY WEST
    3. GEORGE MIKAN
    4. JOHN HAVLICEK
    5. RICK BARRY
    6. JOHN STOCKTON
    7. BOB PETIT
    8. KEVIN MCHALE
    9. BILL WALTON
    10. PETE MARAVICH

    BEST INTERNATIONAL PLAYERS OF ALL TIME

    1. TIM DUNCAN (VIRGIN ISLANDS)
    2. HAKEEM OLAJUWON (NIGERIA)
    3. PATRICK EWING (JAMAICA)
    4. DIKEMBE MUTOMBO (SUDAN)
    5. STEVE NASH (CANADA)
    6. DIRK NOWITZKI (GERMANY)
    7. MANU GINOBILI (ARGENTINA)
    8. PEJA STOJAKOVIC (SERBIA)
    9. YAO MING (CHINA)
    10. TONI KUKOC (CROATIA)

    CLOSE CALLS (ADRYVAS SABONIS, SARUNAS MARCIOLONIS, VLADE DIVAC)

    BEST PLAYERS NON CAUCASIAN AMERICAN OR EUROPEAN AND AFRICAN AMERICAN OR AFRICAN DESCENT

    TEAM HERITAGE

    1. YAO MING HOUSTON ROCKETS CHINESE
    2. ALAA ABDELNABY PHILADELPHIA 76ERS EGYPTIAN
    3. MAHMOUD ABDUL RAUF DENVER NUGGETS ARAB
    4. HIDAYET TURKUGLU ORLANDO MAGIC TURK
    5. LEANDRO BARBOSSA PHOENIX SUNS BRAZILIAN
    6. MEHMET OKUR UTAH JAZZ TURK
    7. TARIQ ABDUL WAHAD SACRAMENTO KINGS GUENIAN
    8. CHARLIE VILLANUEVA MILWAUKEE BUCKS VENEZUELAN
    9. NENE HILARIO DENVER NUGGETS BRAZILIAN
    10. CARLOS ARROYO ORLANDO MAGIC PUERTO RICO

    CURRENT NBA PLAYERS NON CAUCASIAN EUROPEAN OR AMERICAN OR AFRICAN AMERICAN OR AFRICAN DESCENT (BY RANK OF GAME EFFICIENCY)

    1. YAO MING CHINA
    2. HIDAYET TURKUGLU TURKEY
    3. LEANDRO BARBOSSA BRAZIL
    4. MEHMET OKUR TURKEY
    5. CHARLIE VILLANUEVA VENEZUELA
    6. NENE HILARIO BRAZIL
    7. CARLOS ARROYO PUERTO RICO
    8. AL HORFORD DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
    9. FRANCISCO GARCIA DOMINICAN REPUBLIC
    10. YI JIANLIAN CHINA

    BEST NBA PLAYERS EVER

    1. MICHAEL JORDAN
    2. MAGIC JOHNSON
    3. KAREEM ABDUL JABBAR
    4. BILL RUSELL
    5. WILT CHAMBERLAIN
    6. LARRY BIRD
    7. OSCAR ROBERTSON
    8. JERRY WEST
    9. GEORGE MIKAN
    10. ELGIN BAYLOR

    BEST BASKETBALL COUNTRIES

    1. USA
    2. YUGOSLAVIA (SERBIA)
    3. ARGENTINA
    4. SPAIN
    5. LITHUANIA
    6. RUSSIA
    7. SLOVENIA
    8. TURKEY
    9. FRANCE
    10. GREECE

    COUNTRIES DESPERATELY NEED TO SEND AN NBA PLAYER OR SEND MORE NBA PLAYERS

    1. CHINA 14. UKRAINE
    2. INDIA 15. BANGLADESH
    3. JAPAN 16. SOMALIA
    4. IRAN 17. SYRIA
    5. IRAQ 18. SAUDI ARABIA
    6. INDONESIA 19. ENGLAND
    7. THE PHILIPPINES 20. PORTUGAL
    8. MEXICO 21. KOREA
    9. PAKISTAN 22. COLOMBIA
    10. VIETNAM 23. CUBA
    11. THE NETHERLANDS 24. SWEDEN
    12. THAILAND 25. AUSTRALIA
    13. POLAND

  • Michael

    Compass said:
    BEST PLAYERS NON CAUCASIAN AMERICAN OR EUROPEAN AND AFRICAN AMERICAN OR AFRICAN DESCENT

    3. MAHMOUD ABDUL RAUF DENVER NUGGETS ARAB

    Do you not know who Mahmoud Abdul Rauf is? He is a black man who’s former name is Chris Jackson. He played for LSU.
    You might as well say Kareem Abdul Jabbar is Arab while you’re at it.

  • Trevor

    7. Charlie Villanueva VENEZUELA

    Charlie Villanueva is from Queens, NY and his parents are from the Dominican Republic. He has nothing to do with Venezuela.

    Also Tim Duncan has played for the United States National Team for many years. There is nothing really “international” about him outside of his birthplace. I mean Nicole Kidman was born in America, but nobody considers her American. Same thing with Patrick Ewing.

  • Compass

    My bad, Michael & Trevor. I made a mistake on Villanueva and Abdul Rauf, because I heard that Rauf had some lineage from North Africa, but I guess those are just rumors not evidence. Jordan Farmar, by the way have Iranian roots, though, born and raised in the U.S, but I would not rank him in the best non white or non black best NBA players. I’d say Tim Duncan, however, is international as listed by the NBA, because the Virgin Islands where only “stolen” by the U.S after the Spanish American War in 1899, and never became a U.S state but remains a comonwealth, much like Puerto Rico. So i’d say Tim Duncan, who is not from the 48 contigous states is international, much like Carlos Arroyo of Puerto Rico, although both of them are U.S citizens.

  • Maruchan

    this is funny what Attila Arkan wrote about the Turks “They’re white, they consider themselves white, and they’re proud to be white.” I still cant stop laughing, Im sorry! The Turks will never call themselves white nor say they are proud to be white. The Turks are discriminated all over Europe because of their racial differences to the Europeans. I do not want to start any more war here, but I have never laughed like this for a while. You all made some good lists here, but how come Dave Cowens is not in the best white or caucasian players all time ranking? And by the way Jason Kidd is half black, its kinda hard to put him in one of the best white or caucasian players in the NBA.

  • me

    Fact: Is racist that, despite of a fact is an official entity, the NBA still consider white, black, latino… people. In my country, this is a crime and can be punish with up to two years in jail. It’s a crime that you people judge the capacity by the color of the skin. STOP that!!
    Fact: “Buenos Aires is considered the Paris of Latin america” sometimes by foreign (mostly european people) because it’s Architecture, not more. (http://www.internationalspecialreports.com/theamericas/00/argentina/15.html)
    Fact: Many people should stop writing bullshit IF YOU DO NOT KNOW, DO NOT TALK!!!

  • http://www.captainfanatic.com Captain FANatic

    “Not coincidentally, Petrovic, a Croatian who died in a car crash in 1993 just as he was emerging as a star with the New Jersey Nets, is Bogut’s hero. In his apartment bedroom, where he has made his only effort to decorate, Bogut has hung a poster of Petrovic and pictures of himself meeting Petrovic’s parents in Zagreb in 2003. He often wears the Petrovic number 3 Nets jersey he bought on that trip. But Bogut’s identification with Petrovic goes beyond basketball. It includes a shared ethnic heritage: Bogut’s parents, Michael and Anne, are Croatians who immigrated to Australia from what was then Yugoslavia as teenagers in the 1970s.”

    Just to point out that Drazen Petrovich was one of the best white players…and that Bogut is of Croatian parents…and NOT I say NOT serbian as someone in the post said…

  • North Cyprus

    For those believing in science and not made-up history, Turks are european (southeastern european) not asian.

    Ancestry By DNA
    Explore your family’s hereditary links to the past

    EuroDNA™ 1.0, the first test of its kind ever developed, is a pan-genome test that reads your DNA across all 23 of your chromosomes to report your Sub-European population (i.e. “ethnic”) affiliations. This service will predict your Indo-European heritage among the following groups:

    Northern European
    Southeastern European (Mediterranean)
    Middle Eastern
    South Asian

    The Northern European region is comprised of the British Isles, Czech Republic, France, Germany, Poland, Scandinavia, Spain, Switzerland, etc.

    The Southeastern European region is comprised of Italy, Greece and Turkey.

    The Middle Eastern region is comprised of countries near the Persian Gulf and the Red Sea including Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Israel, Lebanon, Syria, etc., and countries in North Africa, including Algeria, Libya, Morocco, etc.

    The South Asian region is comprised of India and Pakistan

  • North Cyprus

    Also according to another DNA test, Turks are southeastern European (mediterranean) and not middle eastern or asian.

    EuroDNA™ includes the following sub-regions (of the European region in AnestryByDNA™):

    Northern European Great Britain, Ireland, the Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Western Russia (and the former SSR), Poland, Ukraine, Czech Republic, Latvia, Estonia, Belgium, norther France, Austria

    Mediterranean Spain, Portugal, southern France, Greece, Turkey, Hungary, Romania, Yugoslavia, Croatia, Bulgaria

    Middle Eastern Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Israel, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Yemen, western Afghanistan, all countries on the southern edge of the Mediterranean Sea and abutting the Red Sea and Persian Gulf)

    South Asian India, Pakistan, eastern Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, Kazahkstan

  • THE HISTORIAN

    North Cyprus, I bestow praise to your part for bringing back the ignorance and misconstructions in this topic (sarcastic). I am certain you are of white descent and your assertion of Turks being white or European, exhibits your small-mindedness and ignorance in scientific or nominal research. Your upshots are distorted, hence, falsified. The Europeans are part of the broader model of the Caucasoid race that came from Central Asia and Persia (Yes, the Caucasoid or the Aryan race did not came from Europe; you probably did not know that).

    Europeans are descendants of the Aryans or Caucasoid stock, which began their thousands of years of migration movements from Middle East and Central Asia into Asia Minor, Europe, India, & Pakistan. (oh yeah, Asia Minor means Turkey, no duh! Please google that to perk up your IQ). It is very ethnocentric and Eurocentric to claim that Turks are European when the very first Aryans or Caucasoid race came did not came from Europe. Check Wikipedia, Britannica encyclopedia, or any germane resource that exemplify the Turks’ conventional culture, historical nativity and origins, and the early emigrational shifts of early Turks, and in no way it would advocate that the Turks are European race but are of Asiatic stock.

    The Caucasoid term that suggest Middle Easterners and even Indians or Pakistanis, who also trace their ethnic extractions from Persia, Mesopotamia, and Central Asia, is no longer an acceptable term of contemporary taxonomy, but is reserve to white people of European descent. Turkey is officially part of Asia Minor and is in the continent landmass of Asia. Indeed, your suggestions are hollow, out of basis, lack judgment, devoid of knowledge, chauvinistic, Eurocentric, and ethnocentric. Please read Wikipedia in the search tool under Turks, and tell me if they are indeed white or European. Your comments are seems to promote a superior racial mentality of whites, it is very racially motivated, and lack every level of edifying, enlightening, cultural or racial reflection.

  • Frau Hitler’s Gas Bill

    I am utterly displeased with most of the comments left by my compatriots about how “white” we are. Guys, is it really that important? Turks are not European, no Turk would ever deign to call himself European. However, one would have to be thoroughly prejudiced to say that Turks are not white. You can’t call a red haired Turk Semitic or Asian, unless you have a strange taste for making a colossal fool out of yourself. The red haired Turk wouldn’t call himself white either, they call themselves “Turks”. Turk is a much more stronger identity than white, Asian, European etc etc. Also Middle Eastern looking ‘Turks’ are not really Turks. They are Kurds and Arabs from Eastern Turkey, which is unfortunately the most underdeveloped part of Turkey. I always know whether a person is Turkish or Kurdish by his/her looks.

    Long story short, Turks aren’t European, Asian and certainly not Middle Eastern either. Turkish culture is a unique blend. Thankfully, you don’t find freaks obsessed with whiteness in Turkey, I am a Turk of Circassian origin with fair skin, reddish brown hair and green eyes and I can assure you that I wouldn’t give a fig even if you called me black. Same goes for the majority of Turks, I don’t know why my Turkish fellows here are bickering uselessly about our looks. 25 million people visit Turkey every year, information, photos, movies are just one click away why all this fuss about intermixing, races, culture and history, since when do we have prove these people anything? Let me remind you that we’re first and foremost Turks, who needs skinheads?

  • Likas

    lol. why do they call Turkey Asia Minor? is it because its in Asia? NO DUH! Great post Frau Hitler’s Gas Bill and the HISTORIAN.

    North Cyprus, here’s some playdough and some crayons for you to play with. Come back here in ten years.

  • can

    I am a Turk. Turk of Anatolia is a nationality ,not a race.Normally We dont think if we are white or brown. But you make us to think what colour we have.

    Turks speak Turkish which is a central Asian language very different than european,arab or indian languages.But finnish and hungarian has same structure like turkish.

    Only few of Turks are Asian Turcic origin. The rest is ancient Anatolian people. I can make a guess.–Only a guess from my observations,not scientific at all.–

    % 1 Gypsy nonwhite
    % 4 Arab nonwhite
    % 13 Kurd nonwhite
    % 3 Turcic nonwhite
    % 1 Macadonian white
    % 8 Bulgarian white
    % 8 Hitit white (ancient original Anatolians)
    % 8 Greek origin white (Half of greek origins are white)
    % 8 Greek origin nonwhite
    % 10 Armenian origin non white
    % 10 Caucasians White
    % 2 Bosnians White
    % 2 Albanians White
    % 11 Mixed races White
    % 11 Mixed races nonwhite

    So we can conclude that % 50 of Turks can be considered White in northern europe, With only 2 % real blonds and 50 % can be considered nonwhite. Non whites mostly resemble middle easterners with some asian looks.

    However in southern europe, greece,italy,spain,portugal these numbers can change and become 75% white and 25% nonwhite.

    my guess about Mehmet Okur is he is a white person.He is probably a mixture of Hitit and Caucasian bloods.

    Hido Turkoğlu is in the borderline. for northern europe he can be considered nonwhite. my guess is he has a mixed blood with turcic.

    but what is the difference, white or black. ı really cant understand why people think about this so much.

  • Shrek

    can, I think you answered the question here. So please guys enough is enough. It looks like WWIII here instead of a basketball commentary page.

  • OKur

    TURKS ARE TURKIC PEOPLE NOT WHITE YOU RETARD! READ THE HISTORY OF TURKEY BEFORE YOU TYPE SUCH IDIOCY! WE DESCEND FROM TURKIC PEOPLES IN CENTRAL ASIA AS WELL AS MONGOLIC PEOPLES, BASICALLY WE HAVE TURKIC AND MONGOLIAN ANCESTRY, UZBEKS, KHAZAKS, TURKMENS AND WE ARE A TOTALLY UNIQUE RACE! MOST OF TURKEY IS IN ASIA AND WE MIGRATED THERE OVER TIME, OUR GENESIS IS IN ASIA WE ARE PURELY ASIAN! MORONS ALL OF YOU, WHAT KIND OF IDIOT ARE YOU OKUR IS WHITE?? LMFAO HE WOULD SLAP YOU SHITLESS IF YOU CALLED HIM WHITE OR EUROPEAN AS WILL ANY TURK. THERE ARE WHITES IN TURKEY WHO CONVERTED TO ISLAM AFTER THE DOMINANCE OF THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE. SERIOUSLY READ THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD BEFORE WRITING SUCH DRIVEL. WE ARE 100% UNIQUE. WHITES ARE GERMANIC(ENGLISH PEOPLE- WHO DESCEND FROM GERMAN PEOPLE AN CELTIC PEOPLE, SLAVIC PEOPLE, VIKINGS ETC.) THERE ARE GREEKS IN TURKEY, READ ABOUT THE PONTIAN GREEKS, I HAVE NO TIME TO POST ALL THA HERE. THERES ALSO SLAVIC PEOPLES LIKE SERBS AND BUGARIANS WHO ARE IN TURKEY, THEY ARE TURKISH AND MUSLIM, AND CAME TO TURKEY BECAUSE OF HATERD THEY FACED IN THEIR FACIST COUNTIRES AND CAME TO TURKEY. THEY ARE TURKISH BUT NOT TURKIC BY ANY MEANS. ARGH THIS WILL TAKE FOREVER, JUST READ UP ON HISTORY BEFORE MAKING AN ASS OUTTA YOURSELF.

    TURKS ARE TURKIC
    EUROPEANS ARE WHITES. EAST SLAVIC(RUSSIANS,UKRAINIANS, BELARUSSIANS) ALL THE WAY DOWN TO SLOVENIA AND SOUTH SLAVIC OR YUGOSLAVIC PLACES. GERMANIC PEOPLE(ENGLAND, GERMANY, DUTCH ETC) AND NORSE SCANDANAVIA.

    PLEASE DONT EVER DISPLAY SUCH MORONIC TENDENCIES EVER AGAIN. TAKE OKUR OFF

  • OKur

    by the way aryan people derive from iran which itself means land of the aryans.

  • Linsky

    Mr.Okur

    I agree with you 100%. I knew that the Turks are non whites and they will never consider themselves whites. turks are descendants of Central Asians and their language is part of the Mongoloid dialects, whcih is extremely distant that of the Indo-European dialects. Furthemore, most Turks are proud of their heritage, as Turks itself is a race within a race. Turks are Turks, Europeans are whites.

  • vango

    HAHAHA…calling Turks whites is like calling Latinos as Arabs. HAHAHA this is some funny stuff. Turks are not white. Turks are Turks PERIOD

  • We

    It is very racist and offensive to racially profile people. Making Turks white is just utmost racist and ignorance. The Turks are not whites not will every call themselves the same race as the Crusader European knights. Remember, Sultan Saladin of Anatolia (Turkey) went to a huge war against the Western white barbarians, as he call it, and defeated them and ousted them out of Israel for the next 700 years.

  • Tank

    ^^ Saladin was Egyptian, not Turkish.

  • Ryan

    I’m half Persian and half Irish, and I am white. There are plenty of good up and coming white people in the NBA (Kevin Love for instance). Tyler Hansborough soon, (they usually go for the full four years at college). The truth is, like Brian Leonard in football, they don’t get a fair shake. If you want to see white athletes look at Baseball, Tennis, Hockey, Football qb’s, Soccer, Cycling, Swimming, Golf, Squash, Gymnastics, Lacrosse, Cricket, Rugby, Water Polo,– all sports dominated by white people, with barely any black people… The only sports black people dominate are basketball and football.

    You black people are hypocrites. You probably consider Barack Obama black (when hes just as white) because you’ll have a smart, successful black man. But a white athlete from Argentina, no way… Is Tiger woods also black? (He’s half Asian).

    Whether you like it or not, “Latinos” that aren’t ancestors of native South Americans are white Europeans, usually from Spain or Portugal. Suck it.

  • Leung ko

    Actually Saladin is neither Turk or Egyptian. He was born in northern Iraq but became the sultan of Syria and Egypt and minimally became a commander of the Turkish forces during the crusader wars. By anyways, the Turks are now whites nor theyt would consider themselves one. If we look at history, the Turks have always considered the Europeans as foreign barbarians, with inferior gene pool. The European had the same belief of the Turks.

  • Leung ko

    The Turks are people who claim their descendants from the East. They have never considered themselves similar to the same gene pool as the ENglish, French, or Germans. They have never claimed they are whites not in present day any Turk will cam himself a full bred member of the White race like the Europeans. Is there any Turk member of the KKK or the neo Nazi? of course not. They will not be accepted because of their unique features that are physicaly different than a typical white person.

    Ryam, please don’t be racist here. Reading all the post, I actually do not think that there are any black person here, I could be wrong. But you are right Obama is half white and his father is from Kenya. His cultural and ancestral ties have no relation whatsoever to the African American slaves who work in the cotton fields nor his ancestry roots involve in the Civil RIghts movement. If you as me, he is closer to be white than black. But since we are a racist country, someone who is not pure will not be accepted as white.

  • Phim

    Ryan, Atilla Arkan, and North Cyprus, please shut the hell up. You guys dont make sense. Please get some education before you post something dumb here. Stop bragging about white people and taking other race’s accomplishments. The Turks are not nor they will ever be considered whites. Just ask Adolf Hitler or Rush Limbaugh.

  • LaGrande

    Pollution of unnecessary posts by many ignorant people. I’m an anthropologist and let me explain the facts, only scientific facts. No personal views, distortions, politics. I’m a Turk, if this is a matter. I’m neither fascist nor a racist but I respect people value their origins and by all means has rights to research their ancestors.

    White, Asian, Caucasian are not cultural terms, are not geographical terms as many ignorant think so. In anthropology we classify races to research ethnic, cultural, lingual connections from the past. Anatolia is called Asia Minor (means Asian side, because it’s border of Europe), but that doesn’t mean people living in Asian minor or in Asia all Asians. Ethnically, Asian means China, Korea, Japan and other genetically similar countries, Asian race also called Yellow race, Again, Asian is not a geographical definition here.

    Turks are ethnically classified as White (or Caucasian) no matter where they live. Yes, they came from Middle Asia but that doesn’t make them Asian. They are still scientifically classified as White. Greek and Russian people also came from Middle Asia (Most people do not know that), but they came earlier than Turks. DNA results showed that Russians are the closest relatives of Turks living in Anatolia. DNA results also showed that Turks in Turkey is the most diverse people in the world genetically. Native Ancient cultures (such as Hittite, Urartu, Galatian), Greeks, Russians, Slavic people, Arabs, Arians, they all mixed up within Turks, today.

    So, do you consider Greeks and Russians Asian? since they also came from Asia? (I don’t think so.) In fact, it is scientifically proven that there were three white group of people living in Middle Asia thousands years ago. Those were Russians, Turks, and Greeks. So, DNA results make sense why they are connected at some point. Greeks are a little distant to Turks because they were also seperately mixed up when they first came to Anatolia which is their first homeland after Middle Asia. But originally they should also be connected with Turks genetically.

    Did you know there is also blood connection between Celtic (Irish) people and some Turks today? (It’s not a well-known fact). It’s also a scientific fact that A large group of Celtics mixed up with Turks in Anatolia, when they were living in, with the name Galatians. DNAs consistently show this connection.

    Another thing you should learn is that we, anthropologists do not consider language as a basis for genetic connection, it may just be a cultural connection and two group of people using same language, in fact may be very different genetically. I hope this helps, stop classifying based on geographic, and linguistic connections. Indian people genetically not considered Asian, although they live in Asia. In fact, two group of people, Indians, and Australian natives cannot be classified belong to any other races, they are not clear. But Turks, certainly, and easily, scientifically classified as White. I’m not talking about skin color here, I’m talking about racial classification. Arabs, for example also classified as White although they have darker skin color, this is because they are genetically a part of White race.

  • Aberdeem

    LaGrande, You are a white guy posting as a Turk. You talk about DNA but you failed to back it up with sources so it makes it a personal opinion. Turks by DNA are classified to be caucasian but it doesnt mean they should be classified as whites. The Turks will never consider themselves to be members of the white race after the thousand years struggle of Anatolia to remain a progressive society outside Christian Europe. The Turks of Anatolia did not arrive not until the last expulsion of the Byzantinne Empire, which makes it indeed official that they came from the East. White and caucasoid are two different classifications. Most people outside Europe are not oblige to be called whites, since it is reserve for the Europeans. Caucasoid or Aryan is a scientific definition of racial compusure that originated from the Iranian Plateau and Mesopotamia. The Indians themselves originated from these areas, yet you will not called them whites. The Indian DNA is of Caucasoid stock yet they are not called whites, for the simple purpose is that they are not European descendants nor they were a country that became a colonial superpower. It is absurd and extremely uneducated to say that only Japanese or Chinese are Asians. Asians is a term for people living in the Asian continent. Check out every dictionary you can find, including wikipedia or britannica, and you will come up with the same definition. If you even search the word Turkish race, not one definition will give you an argument that they are white. Their DNA stock are of a composite stock of their own with diversity, predominantly mixture of Middle Eastern and Asian blood. Again, Asian means people living in Asia, not the yellow skin color as you claimed.

  • Garnier

    Indians not considered Asian? Asians are people with yellow skin, slant eyes, and thin composures? This is the most ridiculous thing I have heard.

    The Europeans themselves, paricularly in Britain calls Indians and Pakistanis Asians while Chinese and Japanese as Orientals. This is the same concept in South Africa. You have humiliated yourself here La Grande. You are obviously a white American and a white sympathizer. First, you ridiculously post as a Turk, then an fake anthropologist, now you are faking your way as a knowledgeable individual when your basis are all racially motivated that lack any level of scholarly evidential material. I have no reason to continue this bias argument. This is a waste of time to argue with someone who obviously is a poser and ignorant.

  • NoKNA

    The Turkic peoples are a collection of peoples residing in northern, central and western Eurasia who speak languages belonging to the Turkic language family. The term Turkic represents a broad ethno-linguistic group of people and includes existing societies such as the Kazakhs, Uzbeks, Kyrgyz, Uyghur, Azerbaijani, Turkmen, and Turkish peoples, as well as historical societies such as the Bulgars, Huns, Seljuqs, Khazars, Ottomans and Timurids.[5][6]

    Many of the Turkic peoples have their homelands in Central Asia, where the Turkic peoples originated from, but since then Turkic languages have spread, through migrations and conquests, to other locations including present-day Turkey. While the term Turk may refer to a member of any Turkic people, the term Turkish usually refers specifically to the people and language of Turkey.(WIKIPEDIA)

    It is generally believed that the first Turkic people were native to a region extending from Central Asia to Siberia. Some scholars contend that the Huns were one of the earlier Turkic tribes, while others support Mongolic origin for the Huns.[32] Otto Maenchen-Helfen’s linguistic studies also support a Turkic origin for the Huns. [33][34] The main migration of Turks, who were among the ancient inhabitants of Turkestan, occurred in medieval times, when they spread across most of Asia and into Europe and the Middle East.[35] (WIKIPEDIA)

    Turks term applied in its wider meaning to the Turkic-speaking peoples of Turkey, Russia, Central Asia, Xinjiang in China (Chinese Turkistan), Azerbaijan and the Caucasus, Iran, and Afghanistan. They total about 125 million, and they are distributed from E Siberia to the Balkans. The wide differences in physical appearance and culture among the Uigurs of China, the Uzbeks of central Asia, and the Osmanlis of Turkey (to cite random instances) make it impossible to speak of Turks as an ethnic or racial group. Although Islam is the religion of the majority of Turks, its importance came relatively late. The most significant unifying link among the Turks is the very close relation of their languages, which are marked by great regularity of pattern and clarity of structure. It is probable that many peoples who were unrelated to the original Turks adopted either wholly or in part their speech and their social organization. The Avars were probably Turkic; they and the Magyars certainly had adopted the Turkic tribal organization when they appeared in Europe, and many Magyar words are of Turkic origin.

    Early Migrations and Empires

    The name Turk was first used by the Chinese in the 6th cent. to designate a nomadic people who had established a large empire stretching from Mongolia to the Black Sea. This empire, which was divided into two independent parts, was forced to accept Chinese sovereignty in the 7th cent. The northern empire regained its independence in 682, and the oldest known Turkic inscriptions (see under Orkhon ) are related to it. In succeeding centuries control of the area passed from the Oghuz Turks to the Uigurs and to the Kyrgyz, who were the last Turkic peoples to reside in Mongolia. They, like their predecessors, migrated to the south and west after they were expelled (924) by the Kitai. Other Turkic peoples, notably the Khazars , Cumans , and Pechenegs , played important roles in the medieval history of S Russia and SE Europe. The Turkish groups of the greatest import in the history of Europe and W Asia were, however, the Seljuks and the Osmanli or Ottoman Turks, both members of the Oghuz confederations. The Arab annexation of the area of ancient Sogdiana in the 7th cent. brought the Oghuz Turks into direct contact with the Abbasid caliphate and later with the Persian Empire. The Turks embraced the Sunni Muslim faith and began to migrate to the Middle East. At first they were used as mercenaries by the Abbasids, but soon the Turks became the actual rulers of the empire. (ENCYLOPEDIA)

    I AM A WHITE AMERICAN BUT I DO NOT CLAIM THAT TURKS ARE WHITE BECAUSE BY FACTS AND ALL ACADEMIC RESOURCES SUGGEST THEY ARE PEOPLE WHO CAME FROM THE EAST, LIKE THE HUNS. TURKS ARE ASIANS AND YOU CAN CHECK ANY WEB SEARCH ENGINES OR BOOKS FOR THAT MATTER. IF YOU WANT TO PROVE TURKS ARE WHITE, PLEASE PROVIDE A DAMN SOURCE THAN YOUR DaMN PERSONAL OPINION. PLEASE SHUT THE HELL UP FOR FOLKS HERE WHO KEEP CLAIMING TURKS ARE WHITE!!!! SCIENTIFICALLY SPEAKING, THEY ARE NOT, AND THAT IS ALREADY ACCEPTED AT ALL ACADEMIC LEVELS THAT TURKS CAME FROM THE DAMN EAST NOT EUROPE! IF YOU READ THE POST OF KNOWLEDGEABLE INDIVIDUALS HERE SUCH AS GIN FU SHENG, LAME DUCK, KHANDOR, REXY, AND THE HISTORIAN, YOU CAN SEE THAT THEY BACK THEIR ARGUMENT WITH FACTS USING ACADEMIC RESOURCES, WHILE PEOPLE LIKE ATTILA ARKAN, TURAN, JOHN CANOR, AND OTHERS KEEP STATING THEIR OPINION WITHOUT ANY LEVEL OF EVIDENCES OR ACADEMICALLY BASED SOURCES. THAT JUST MAKES YOU THREE GREAT PRETENDERS, LIARS, RACIST, SELF DENIAL, AND PREJUDICE.

  • LaGrande

    Again to all ignorants, whoever they are. I am an athropologist and telling you just scientific facts not the remnants of information from Wikipedia or Britannica. It’s so ridiculous that some people consider Wikipedia as a scientific source. I have a PhD. in Anthropology and giving you only scientifically accepted and proved facts not the opinions. What are those facts are specified in my previous post. People so biased within themselves they keep saying Turks came from East so they are Asians. If you read my post I say the same thing, they came from East but they are not Asians. What about Russians and Greeks, where did they come from? Answer: Asia. So, Should we consider them Asians? Just a bunch of ignorant poser just posting their racist arguments. So, you are asking my scientific sources? Well, they are not Wikipedia ignorant basts. They are actual scientific sources and readily available as peer reviewed resources. If you don’t believe me, just find an anthropologist and show what I had written. They will tell you the same thing. So this is my last word, I don’t have time to waste here with a bunch of ignorant. I have my students to teach, so that they shouldn’t become like most of you (not all of you). Indians, again I’m repeating: they are not defined neither Caucasian, nor Asian, or black. It’s not political, it’s just that their anthropometric values do not provide enough scientific evidence to be classified within another race. No race is superior or inferior to another dear friends. But at some point we have to study and learn our past and ancestors. That’s what science is for. Having said everything, you can just go and believe whatever you want. It’s just your choice.

  • Moor Warrior

    With all due respect, before you brag about your PhD in anthropology may I know what is your surname and to what university do you teach LaGrande? Are you familiar that anthropologists have longed considered that before 1492 with the discovery of America, there were only 4 classified racial groups, the Caucasoid, Mongoloid, Negroid, and Australoid. The Caucasoid group are people of Central Asia that migrated into the Middle East, Northern Africa, South Asia, and Europe. By all concepts they have the identical blood lineage and DNA derivations, but due to climate change, their physical equanimity altered noticeably. The white idiom of race solitarily became available not as a scientific nomenclature of races, but a categorization of differentiating the European colonizers and their colonized empires.

    Indeed, LaGrande your scientific methodology is incorrect, because the white term itself is a cultural and political organization that is not classified as a scientific or methodical model for a distinct race. Caucasoid is a scientific classification for a race, so you may call Mehmet Okur, much like Osama Bin Laden, or Mahatma Ghandi a Caucasoid stock. Caucasoid stock in scientific term is not classified by a skin color, but it is transcended to human DNA. Indeed, to trace the roots of early human beings, their early nativity in society is traced, which social theorists, historians, and physical scientists embarks to spawn a research upshot that is conclusive to systematic precision. The white term once again, if I may repeat is not a skin color; it is a DNA legion of cluster within human civilization. Indeed, the white term is not scientific; it is a sheer anthology of cultural thoughts, typecasts of people, and a political loom to the conception of race. So LaGuardia you are absolutely wrong for saying white is scientific.

  • Moor Warrior

    I meant to say white is not a DNA legion of cluster..I forgot to put the word not…My apologies for the error..

  • NoKNA

    LaGrande would you be kind enough to give me some of the peer reviewed articles you collected which states the turks are white similar to the Aryan Germans, the Slavic Russians, and the Anglo English. Thanks..

  • can

    okay,check this site

    http://www.dnatribes.com/populations.html

    ı understood white as a skin colour. if white means european cultural and politic roots, Turks are certainly not whites. But on the contrary of what you think,geneticly we are not centrel asians either. if you can classify turk as a unique mixture of a race, fine, if you want simply call turks as middle eastern muslims, fine, but dont think that turks are yellow skin race with chineese eyes. because thats not true. ı mean does mehmet okur look chineese to you?

  • Dr.Muzaffer Karasulu

    Hey folks!.. you’re all too scientific. Let me interject a reality and some humor if I may in to the testing of once’s Turkishness. First of all, your pigments has nothing to do with your degree of Turkishness. Any color wrom white,yellow,brown to dark can be a TURK. Beign a Turk is a matter of spirit, nothing has to do with your DNAs. Anyone with a big heart and endless human love can call themselves TURK. I guarrantee you, no Turk can object to that. As a matter of fact, Turks call even Norvegians( John Caruv , who played soccer in Turkey before he became famous in England) was called “like one of us” by the fans as well as his teammates as he nostalgically remembers his experience in Turkey. On the other hand,according to Greeks for example, you cannot become a Greek ,by your merits but with your matching DNA only. How do Iknow? Because I was born in Greece and grew there untill 15. The same unfortunately holds for Germans too. The Germanic DNA, apparently is soo pure(!) and dominant that that only Germans can solve big problems(?) I’ve never forget one of my former students, who happened to be a German, congratulated me enthusiastically by saying that “Teach,..You can be a German” when I had accidentally solved one of the toghest nuclear engineering problems at the time. Instead of reversing the sentiment to him, I just said, thanks Rudi, but I am glad to be a stupid Turk than a smart German.

  • TraceTrevor

    Thanks for your input Dr. Karasulu…Moor Warrior and the Historian, I like your analysis too…Aberdeem also provide some very scholarly materials…LaGrande, Ryan, and North Cyprus, you guys should do more readings. No disrespect but it just sound like you guys don’t know what you’re talking about. North Cyprus and LaGrande reminds me of Sarah Palin..LOL

  • GrandTurk

    LOL TraceTrevor your honor!!! Your are the fuckn’ judge of us? You like some analysis and not others and give out points. Give me a couple points, too shit head! You are a Turk hater and opposing the any people who are belong to Turks! Listen shit head, we Turks are the greatest warriors of the history. and there is only one reason of why other Europeans hate us: because we kicked the shit out of their asses from their homelands during history. Northern Huns and Ottomans kicked all of your asses all the way to the West! Without Huns in the history, Germans, English, French, all of them would have been living today at somewhere else. We ruled Greek, we ruled, Slavic people, we ruled Bulgarians, Albanians, Serbians, Arabs, Russians, Persians, any many more for hundreds of years. This is the only reason why YOU assholes hate us. I totally understand now. You like it or not we, I, Turks have been your masters!!! That’s it. Keep hating me, because this is the only thing you can do. If you try to face your history again, we will kick your asses again, again, again and again!!! You are well aware of it, especially Greeks! We ruled Greeks for 300-400 years and so they still have a lot of feelings for us. Check your histories, you guys all have independence days, but Turks doesn’t celebrate an independence day!! Do you know why, because we have always been free, we were never ruled, and we will never be ruled. Because we are TURKS, because we are the greatest, if you wanna measure this come and try anytime. You know what we are capable of. Be afraid, and hate us, because this is the only thing you can do assholes!!!! I don’t care white or European or Asian, We, Turks are TURKS that’s it.

  • TraceTrevor

    GrandTurks, I am not judging, I am commenting under the basis of people’s analysis. It is you who seem to be judging people here by calling us assholes? I am not a Turk hater, and I dont see anyone here hating on the Turks. In fact I admire Turkey’s history. The Turks did kick bunch of European asses, I can agree with that. I can agree also that Turks are Turks, not white or anything else.

  • GrandTurk

    You are right I called you asshole, but also called you shit head!!!!
    You are dickhead who is so ignorant who doesn’t know Turks are white. We could have been black or Asian, and I would have accepted my identity in this case, BUT WE ARE “WHITE” race, asshole!!!!!! How many times people have to repeat and shout dickhead! We are white but still distinct from a German or English or oriental, or middle easterns! We are proud Turks, this is our proud national identity, and we are belong to White race, ignorant bastard!

  • TraceTrevor

    GrandTurk, you are not a Turk, Youa re just a poser..You sound more like a member of the Ku Klux Klan trying to impose your ignorance..You are not in my level you piece of trash..Fuk you you fucking dumb mothufucker..You talk like a fucking trailer trash park bullshit and you aint even got any info to back you ignorance you lil fucking whore..fuck u bitch..go back to Mississipi with your KKK faggots..

  • TraceTrevor

    Oh sorry I forgot your an asswhole too..And if youre a real Turk, please translate your entire column in the Turkish language you fucking fake ass bitch..Get your fucking faggot fake ass out your fucking KKK..

  • Mongol Warrior

    GranTurk, you are obviously not a Turk..you are a white pimpled face nerdy skinny kid who has nothing to do with your life but to jack off inf ront of the computer..DO u have a blow up doll under your bed or an imgainary girlfriend, huh loser? Or maybe you are a faggot waiting for guys to give their special white lotion in your ugly face…Turkey has been conquered many times dumb ass..Like the Umayyads, the Byzantinnes, and not to mention the whooping that Mongols gave on the Turk’s inferior warrior breeds..Do you know the kind of beating Tamerlane of the Ilkhanate Empire did to Bayazid I and the Turks. Thousands of Turks had their heads chopped off and the Mongols made it a tower of human skull. Not to mention pillage and rape women and kill them afterwards..Turkey or ANatolia eventually became part of the Ilkhanate Empire which is a porvince of the Mongol empire..Obviously you do not know that since you are not a Turk but a dumb fuck..

  • The Fugitive

    LOL..Cant believe it has gone this way..Cant we just all agree that turks are Turks and non whites..Man..thats the truth anways just so we can stop this non sense..

  • Bo Diddley

    I get the distinct impression that you’re a black person who is racist against whites. Ya think? There is plenty of white athletic ability out there, as evidenced by all the great players from the segregated days and collegiate teams.
    I think what happens in sports, unfortunately, is that a huge percentage of black people feel that it is one of the only ways out of a poverty situation, so a huge percentage try hard in that arena. However, whites with great athletic ability have many career options and often do other things, thus depleting the quality that persist to NBA level.

  • The Fugitive

    Can you guys please stop these..WHo cares about black and white..Why are people cursing anyways..Why cant Arsenalist just delete Okur there and add other guys instead so we can stop this fighting..Being white means more culture that it is skin color..So again we cant just think if you’re light skinned you are automatically white.This alone may offend many Hispanics, Arabs, Persians, Kazahks, or Turks, who think they are of a different group than let”s say White Europeans.

  • hdfrt
  • The Fugitive

    LOL..Thanks hdfrt..those girls are hot..

  • Boomerang

    LOL..I dont think there is any real Turk here..I cant believe how people try to pretend theya re one for the sake of arguemnt..You are just humiliating yourself guys..Just admit it, some of the posers here are whites..Man, what a bunch of fakers..

  • Yushin Okami

    Turks are not white..Okur and Turkuglu are different race than Chris Kaman or Steve Nash..It is too obvious..I am not a doctor, a scientist, a historian, an anthropologist, or a social theorist, or anything but I did stay at the Holiday Inn last night..

  • Hersheys

    HAHA..Yushin Okami I slept on Wardof Astoria last night and I say Turks are not white too!

  • Blackpanther

    White people will claim anyone white if they are good. Turks are obviously not white but again because Turkuglu and Okur are good, white people will categorize them as white.

  • wfwfe

    i don’t have time to read ignorance. turks are related to chinese people and so have the similar fatures to chinese people. okur is possibly persian or wih mixed persian ancestry. as turks e have no relation to white people, an in fact ar purely asian. the turks in turkey may have mixed with byzantines like the oghuz tribes, hence some possible caucasian features at one end. however the pure turks are related to the xionxiu of china. period!

  • wfwfe

    btw lagrande you moron russians are not asian, they are slavs who migrated from western europe to now russia, they weren’t always there. look up the history of the east slavs. man people NEED A HISTORY LESSON!

  • Sonic

    wfwfe, Thanks for your input. I agree with you that pure Turks are actually from Central Asian and parts of the Xianxing province of China. Being of Mongol ancestry, we trace are hereditary as far as the Huns of Hungary and Czechoslovakia, also traces of Anatolia. You are a smart person, and I assume you are not like lagrande of Grandturk who are morons.

  • hdfrt

    Do these women reaally look like chineese to you?http://www.flickr.com/photos/tubabykstn/2511764401/in/set-72157604703326303/
    May be they look like latins.

  • Sonic

    They look Turks to me.

  • white guy

    larry bird would tear up every small forward in the nba today except for lebron

  • black guy

    Larry Bird and Mehmet Okur are not of the same race. If they are, then Okur would be white, which he’s not. Larry Bird is the best small forward to play the game. Michael Jordan at 2, Magic at 1, Duncan at 4, and Kareem at 5. Russell and Wilt are close too.

  • Vineham

    I feel that I should mention that Ginóbili has dual citizenship, with Argentina and Italy. He could be considered European or South American

  • Zen Master

    White is not the same as Caucasoid. The Arabs, Persians, Palestinians, SYrians, and Turks will never call themselves members of the white race like the Europeans or Anglo Saxon Americans. Caucasoid is a genetic pool that is multifaceted and does not merely represent one skin color, which means white and caucasian or caucasoid are not 100% scientifically identical.

  • http://sikim Caner

    modern turks are mongrols just like the south americans, im from south east turkiye, i look very south european for example spanish, italian and so on with a olive skin tan as most people from turkiye are mediterranean (i get confused with nearly all south american countrys, australian,east european, north/east african, mediterranean, mixed race & even light black when im in the sunny country for around a week as my skin changes colour very quickly when im exposed to the sun) and like every country we have colour divides as well there are white turks, esmer (tanned turks) which inculdes olive skined like me to darker skin colour and etc talking about history just does not make sense to me..everyone in turkey knows that they are mongrols from various races slavs , blacks, whites etc but being a turk comes before that as a result we have a national term “ne mutlu turkum deyene” happiness to anyone that says that they are turks.

    hope that helps and about memo & hedo they are white turks in my opinion but they might even have african genes you never know as mordern turks have the most mixed and diverse gene pool.

  • Real Turk

    Unlike some people here, I am a real Turk and I speak fluent Turkish. I was born and raised in Kuhtaya and moved to Los Angeles, Calfiornia at the age of 17. To real Turks here— ar degil beyaz onemli kimse biz ar bizim kendisin insalar. Biz ar itbaren orta dogu yok avrupa. Bir azametli e dogru anlamına gelme Turk! We Turks are not white, we are proud of our heritage and is sick and tired of being categorize as whites. WHites are Europeans, we are Middle Easterners! End of discussion!

  • Real Turk

    Caner, The original Turks came from Central Asia and Inner Mongolia, You hit the jackpot, Turks are actually of Mongol descent, similar to the Huns and Tatars. Anyways, thanks for pointing that out. I am sick and tired of being stereotype as a white person, when being a Turk means being a Turk not white. Turks are by far closer to be Asian than a white kracker.

  • Kebap

    Turks arent Europeans but, Turks are white. Also Turks arent Asians, Mid-Eastern or Caucasion. Turks are staying in Anatolia (called; Little Asia). Anatolia located in Asia but it belong to Europe because the history. Another example; Cyprus who located 100% in Asia, also belong to Europe. Armenia, Georgia other examples. This is physiogeographic.

    Mehmet Okur and Türkoglu are white. More white than regular Greeks, Spaniards or Italians, who are called; EUROPEANS.

    As conclusion; Turkey is a country in continent Asia but it belong to Europe. The Turks arent Europeans. Turks are white. Turks are Turks. THATS it! no ASIA, Europe Mid-East or Caucasion. BUT>> ANATOLIA.

  • Kebap

    to Real Turk@ As your name you arent Real Turk. And as I can read your Turkish isnt 100%. So stop lying. Im 100% sure you re Greek. I dont understand what you said in Turkish.

    Turks re from Central-Asia. But Turks arent Mongol. Mongols are Altaic, Japanese, Koreans and Turks too. Huns (Hungary)(Mentioned Hun-Turks), Finns (Finland) are also Altaic who are mixed with Scandinavian and Slavic people. Like Turks who are mixed with Anatolian people. Before Turks came to Anatolia, we were white. Now we are white too. I wont to start a discussion that half of Greeks are Ethipian origin.

  • Ali Baba

    Kebap, You judge someone here that his/her Turkish language is not fluent, yet you cant even say a single sentence of Turk. You are also an imitator. I can tell you are a white person who wants to expand the idiom representation of the white race. You sound extremely dumb when you talk about how Turks are white. White is not a skin color, it is a cultural affiliation. Turkey’s history, language, ethnic origins, culture, and religion is MIddle Easterner. 98 percent of the population are Muslim, and Turkey’s fertile lands of the East belonged to the Mesopotamian civilization, which is MIDDLE EAST. Not to mention, Sultan Saladin, rule of Turkey in the Middle Ages fought side by side with his fellow Muslims like the Syrians, Paletinians, Egyptians, Iranians, and Lebanese to beat the f888 of the WHITE CRUSADERS of Europe. The Turks have spilled blood defending their territoryf rom Europe, they will always be MUSLIMS,a nd their history under Prophet Muhammad of Arabia will always be affiliated to the MUSLIM WORLD not the WHITE WORLD!!!

  • http://aintnowaychrisbrown.blogspot.com/ Avery Banks

    oh no !! i like chrihanna soo much !!

  • Kebap

    Ali Baba,

    Ben Türküm sen fazla konusma tamami. Ayrica Türk ismi kullanma çünkü aptalin tekisin. (Im real Turk)

    White isnt cultural. White is a skin color. What if a real Turk turns from muslim to Christian. Does the person turn to white? no! White is something like a cultural affilation since WW2 by Adolf Hitler. Blond and bleu eyes are white in your case. You are talkng about crusades, remember yourself that crusades were before WW2. That time there was nothing called ”white christian europe”. Turkey isnt middle-eastern. Perhaps it is, but absolutely not just. Turkey’s history, language, ethnic origins, culture, and religion belongs to; Caucasia, Middle-East, Mediterrean and Balkans same time. We ve many ethnic-groups from white-blond to white-dark skinned.

    But the point is Turkoglu and Mehmet Okur. If you see Okur and Turkoglu for first time, you ll’ directly become an opinion that both re real white. Why changing of opinion after you read the names and the nationality??

    P.s. Dont be jealosy…. like others..

  • Zen Master

    Would the SIberians, Japanese, Koreans, and Chinese be considered white? They have pretty light skin color? How about the Arabs, many are well light skin complected. The Iranians and even the Afghans are also very light skin? No they are not white regardless if their skin color is white. You are mistaken, white is not a skin color, there is no person on this earth with a “white skin.” White cannot even be called a race, because the Italians are of a different racial stock than say the Anglo British or Aryan Germans. This should not be even an arguement. White is a simplified vocabulary to determine the varying ethnic groups of the European continent. Turks, Syrians, Iranians, Japanese, Chinese, Turks, or Afghans may have a very light skin color but they are not white, because there is no skin color white. White is an idiological representation of race not a scientific fact that a person has white skin! so please Kebap, shut the hell up faker!

  • Zen Master

    looks like you copy and pasted that Turkish sentence from the internet! u r not a Turk! poser!

  • Kebap

    Zen Master@

    You said the White is named to the ethnic groups who lives in Europe. What about USA?? White is in the USA different recognized than Europe. Thats why Okur and Turkoglu are white recognized in USA.
    Lets say you are right that in fact Europeans are white. So European = White. Do Turkoglu and Okur look like an European like many of Turks? YES.

    Im Turk. I can say in Turkish whatever you want. Why should I copy/paste a sentence from the net? Siktir git lan ibne çocugu….

  • Tieneich

    Zen Master, you are the one who should shut the hell up.

    Stop bringing east asians into your arguments. You don’t know much about it as I can tell. Do you know the difference between Southern Chinese (Cantonese) and Northern Chinese (Mongolian)? What about Western Chinese (Middle Eastern) and South Western Chinese (Tibetan)? Do you know anything about Siberian who resides in the Northeast China?

    Yeah, people from North Eastern China do look light skin (so is in Northern Japan). But if you pull them next to Hidayet or Okur, who will be whiter? That’s a no-brainer.

    Continue with your argument with others, but don’t bring in things that you lack of knowledge about. It makes you look unwise.

    By the way, if there is no such thing called white skin, then there is no such thing call black skin either. Are there anyone (who we call black) having the color “black” defined by Optic Physics? Us Chinese aren’t really that yellow either, so why people consider us as “yellow skin”?

    Some people also said that white people, due to the lack of significant athlete in basketball, love to claim people in their group. Yes, just like Chinese loves bragging about Yuan Dynasty (or in the real word – The Mongolian Empire) had the biggest territory in Chinese history while it really was a continuation of Mongolian Empire.

  • Tyron

    Damn guys! What the hell? It feels good [being black] to watch you fighting about who’s the whiter |o|. As a matter of fact I like the idea that if you have one drop of black you are black.
    It put Michael Jordan, Tony Parker, Tim Duncan, and the Lopez twins in one category: Black.

    In the NBA, the classification should be based on American vs. None-American; period.

    Whoever American NBA player you are, White or Black, you were dreaming of being in the NBA, NFL, or MLB since you are a kid.

    I don’t think Ginobili cared about the NBA when he was 13 years old. Probably he dreamt of being the goalkeeper of River Plate or Buca Juniors and eventually the Argintinaian National soccer team. Seeing Maradona wining the World Cup for Argentina in 1986 must bu unforgettable picture for all Argentinian kids at that time.

    Steve Nash Grew up playing soccer as kid in South Africa, Hockey in Canada, and eventually Basketball in High school and in Santa Clara University, California.

    Being an international player is culturally and mentally different than being American players.

  • Tyron

    Damn guys! What the hell? It feels good [being black] to watch you fighting about who’s the whiter |o|. As a matter of fact I like the idea that if you have one drop of black you are black.
    It put Michael Jordan, Tony Parker, Tim Duncan, and the Lopez twins in one category: Black.

    In the NBA, the classification should be based on American vs. None-American; period.

    Whoever American NBA player you maybe, White or Black, you were dreaming of being in the NBA, NFL, or MLB since you were a kid.

    I don’t think Ginobili cared about the NBA (or the Argentinian Basketball League) when he was 13 years old. Probably, he dreamt of being the goalkeeper of River Plate or Buca Juniors and eventually the Argintinaian National soccer team. Seeing Maradona wining the World Cup for Argentina in 1986 must be an unforgettable scene for all Argentinian kids at that time.

    Steve Nash Grew up playing soccer as a kid in South Africa, Hockey in Canada, and eventually Basketball in High school and in Santa Clara University, California.

    Being an international player is culturally and mentally different than being American player.

  • Bosnian

    You guys are all idiots Okur is half Bosnian half Ukrainian both countries are situated in Europe therefore Okur is white!!

    Hedo Turkoglu’s parents are directly from northeastern Bosnia and Hedo speaks Bosnian. Bosnia is in Europe therefore Hedo is white!!

    About Turks being white or not I have met many Turks who say they are white and some say they are not white, mostly the ones from Istanbul say they are white and the ones from the eastern part say they are not.

  • BlackTurk

    Auch..I guess american turks dont wanna be considered white.lol. just like dominicans dont wanna be black.

    Look in the mirror tho..seriously

  • BlackTurk

    Remember back in the day when only european players in the NBA was CROATIANS ?

    Petrovic, Kukoc, Tabak, Radja, Vrankovic,..

    They dont look like nowitzki or bird and they r darker than turks (turkoglu, okur )but they are still white

  • Bengal Trader

    I think this site is BS. Why would anyone bring the skin color thing here considering NBA players. See what happened, we just all end up fighting instead of discussing things in a professional manner. Who cares about white, black, yellow, brown, red, green, or blue? It usually comes down to your national origin, birthplace, or place you were raised. Turks do not use the term white, but they call themselves Turks. It is usually the Americans or Europeans who apply the white skin color thing, which I think is full of BS.

  • vase

    That lies the problem my friends. In Canada or the United States, people are obsess in categorizng skin color to national origin which is completely different. The white term is controversial and we can debate all he want to whom we consider “white” or “colored” and we will never finish. If you ask a real Turk, if you are white? they will just grim at you as if your a dumbo! National orgin plays a more prominent role in identifying people. This eurocentric perception of skin color is just too utterly displeasing and also ignorant.

  • Javy Castro

    Manu Ginobili is LATINO Hes from Latin America so u couldnt consider him white even though his ancetors are Spanish and italian hes still latino not WHITE!!! Like people from Spain they would be considered Hispanic/Latino

  • Javy Castro

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  • ER KANN

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  • Ibd Kahrkoum Mohammad is FAKE!!!!

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  • whoa

    Whoa, this Ibd Kahrkoum Mohammad Arab-ass guy keeps using the same phrases under many different names trying to prove Turks are not white. I have had a Turkish boyfriend, and have been to Turkey several times, and can say easily that 90% of Turks are white, much whiter than Greeks or Bulgarians.

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    Yea, obviously there is this one Arab guy here who keeps claiming that Turkey was conquered by Umeeyyids or whatever fuck that is, which is completely false, and noone (except the same liar) would repeatedly say that, let alone multiple people saying the same thing. It is more than clear, therefore, that this guy is Arab and is faking sometimes as a scientist, sometimes as a Turk and sometimes as Chinese.

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  • Foxr

    if you consider “white” as blonde eyes,hair light skin then whole south europe is not white.and ı think you mixed up turks and kurds in turkey.tukish people is not white they’re actually mediterrian people that looks very like greeks,spanish etc.dark people in turkey %99 are kurds so people assume turk race as middle eastern but you wrong.as ı said turks are mediterrian.

  • Anonymous

    TURKS ARE NOT ARABS.HOWEVER,MOST TURKS ARE USUALLY NOT DESCRIBED AS WHITE.AS CONFUSING AS IT IS,COMING FROM A BLACK MAN,MOSTLY THOSE OF ANATOLIA NATION,JEWS,AND IMMIGRANTS FROM ABKHAZIA,GEORGIA,BOSNIA,RUSSIA,GREECE,AND GERMANY ARE THE ONLY WHITE TURKS.To that stupid,ignorant,Chinese bitch,GET IT RIGHT,YOU AND YAO MING ARE ORIENTAL ASIANS.Let’s Not get this confused that white people are not in asia,PEOPLE WHO LIVE IN ISRAEL,WHICH IS IN ASIA,ARE WHITE.In matter of fact,MOST PEOPLE FROM IRAN AND PAKSITAN ARE BEST DESCRIBE AS WHITE,PRIOR TO THE FACT THEY CARRY ISLAM AS A RELIGION.

  • Bosnjak

    This is funny :D

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